SJL Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Its winter so I have been thinking of doing some upgrades to my 1.6K SS now I have had it a year. I have been thinking of doing the brakes first on the basis that the standard Triumph calipers don't exactly sling you into the harnesses and was wondering what people recommend - the Caterham upgrade is £700 which seems steep - I noticed that Willwood do a good 4pot and vented discs package which looks good (and is much cheaper)- has anyone tried this ? I called AP to see if they do a set but apparently they only supply Caterham direct Whilst I expect the Caterham package is very good I am aware that they charge for the branding - if there is an aftermarket equivalent that can save a couple of hundered that thats fine by me. All advice appreciated - thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberts Wallet Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Simon, you could try James Witting and his Alcon setup which uses standard discs. Saying this though, I've just changed my pads recently from EBC to Mintex 1144's and have found that the brakes are alot better with more feel, all for the price of some pads. May be worth a try before forking for new calipers etc Blue and Carbon Supersport T561 LKJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Simon, Before you run out and spend a load of dosh on uprated front brakes I would advise to to try living with your standard brakes with high performance pads. fit pagid RS14 pads all round, this is a pad material with a higher coefficient of friction so will improve intial bite, also as the pads heat up the coefficient of friction increases with this pad material. I would also relace my brake fluid with Castrol SRF and fit a brake bias valve into the rear brake circuit this will allow you to reduce the rear braking effort as the rears tend to be too powerfull. If you just uprate the fronts by fitting 4 pot calipers and vented discs, you will find all the braking will be on the front, sure it will feel impressive the car will stand on its nose but the front wheels will lock up easily and you will not stop the car efficeintly. A well set up set of standard brakes will out brake you every time IMO. Rob Edited by - Rob walker on 2 Jan 2003 14:43:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I went the Caterham route with the recently redesigned calipers and they are very good, they aren't cheap but definetly worth it. The only problem is the limited selection of pads available at the moment.. In terms of the Willwood calipers I think Groutledge on this forum used to have them on his live axled caterham. They seemed to be pretty good. It may be worth a call to the 7's Workshop to have a chat with Chris as he's fitted LOTS of different kits to various cars.. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Am rebuilding my crossflow engined 7 with James Whiting's Alcon front brakes and rear disc brake conversion on the Ital axle. Car won't be running until April but plan to do a piece for Low Flying on how easy or difficult it is to do and how well it works. Can't wait to find out! Reckon that an 'ideal' brake upgrade should give: - consistent stopping (ie no overheating) - a good pedal 'feel' (is that too subjective?) - easier modulation (is that the right word?) so making it easier to avoid locking up brakes - lower unsprung weight to improve handling Oh, and it should look dead sexy, not cost too much, give low maintenance costs, allow all 13 wheels to be fitted and enable the 7 to outbrake a F1 car... On the subject of dead sexy, Demon Thieves seem to have discontinued brake caliper paint from their 2003 catalogue. Is is still obtainable and is it worth going for (I fancy some glossy red calipers)? Andy Couchman Q831FDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Andy you Tart ! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I've changed to Pagid RS-15 using standard calipers with great effect - pads are £110 for an axle set though! But they seem to be holding up well on the plus side and bite from cold which has to be a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJL Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 I spoke to Chris at the 7 workshop who was very helpful - he was explaining that they are looking at a hiTech kit (4-pots and vented disks) which would retail at ~£400 which is a saving over the Caterham equivalent. He did mention that the Willwood calipers don't dust seals so are not really a road solution - which is a pity. Before I do anything else I think I might try a set of Mintex 1144's in the front calipers to see if these make a useful difference - I just called my local distributor but realised I don't have the part numbers - can anyone help please ? (I take it I can leave the rear's alone to begin with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Andy, Go out a buy a copy of 'MaxFlower' there is bound to be someone in there who sells it for the wide boy Nova's and Saxo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Last year that was the Caterham price *fitted*. Which I didn't think was too bad once you'd totted up the total prices of the alternatives. OK it was a premium, but then it's race tested and has been fitted to the cars for some time. Spares should also not be a problem. Plumped for that route myself and am very happy with the results. If all you're looking for is better feel etc (on a K-SS you shouldn't really need massive aounts more stopping power) then pads and potentially master cylinder upgrades might be a better first step (as noted above). This also saves weight as you don't get heavy vented discs (you don;t use vented discs with the Alcons too I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Ditto Rob Walker's comments, the front to rear balance, pad and brake fluid are as important if not even more so than the caliper itself. I have a brake bias adjuster fitted to my car which allowed me to adjust the balance with the new calipers, additionally I moved to RS14 pads on the rear to help sort out the balance. In terms of fluid I'm running AP600 which seems to do the job and is a lot cheaper than Castrol SRF!! Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Andy, You will be surprised to know that the weight of the CATHERHAM UPRATED front brakes is in fact lighter than the standard girling brake setup. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Yep but it's lighter even although it has a big heavy vented disc, with alloy calipers and the lighter solid disc the alcon set up will be even more lighter than the standard set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug phillips Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I have the Caterham 4 p brakes fitted to my se7en.............. they were fitted when I got it. I must have A, a lack of right foot preasure or............ B, c**p brake pads. When I put it into Redline for its 25K service, I will ask about brake pads. My work aday Nissin has better brakes than the se7en !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. < must make note to call Redline to book service> Doug Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Don't forget that workaday cars tend to run servos (not sure if your Nissan has). These things can help a car stand on its nose. Anyone who's driven a Citroen BX will know this is possible, and not always a desirable trait. I would say that even with the fronts upgraded the brakes could still be improved. PeterC's feel very good (when shoving the pedal whilst the car was still, which isn't necessarily the best test but others have said they're very good), but then he currently has no legal handbrake mechanism (I think). Think he has the uprated rears too, and may be running Pagids... Pads are pretty vital to the overall set up mind, as noted several times above. I'm glad you said that Chelspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 The weight saving on the Caterham setup is probably partly due to the aluminium hubs. Yet to find out if they're any good - it's not finished yet 😬 They were pretty good on Cat Mids' SV demo car though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 It's well worth a chat with the nice man at Monmouth, have a check in the archives, top chap, knows shed loads and reckons that with the right brake pads you could have 2 pot brakes that compare favourably with 4 pots in a car as light as a 7 even with solid disks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 If you have 4 pots and a wooden pedal then I think the race master cylinder is what you need. This gives you more pedal feel, not sure why but big improvement for me. Made by AP Racing but only available from Caterham, about 150 quid. The guy from Monmouth is John Freeth at Performance Braking on 01600 713117, top bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian P Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 General thought: I was wondering about uprating my brakes last year, 'round about the same time that I bought some 32R's, after which I decided my brakes were good enough..! The extra grip of the 32's over the factory Avon ZV1's has made a huge difference to how hard/late I can brake - and the standard Roadsport brake setup seems to provide more than enough feedback through the pedal as to when things are about to lock (and modulation remains easy-peasy). Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Numsaki Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 From far east to all. (pardon me if I use worng english ) I setted up the Wilwood DYNALITE 4 pots. It weight is 1.15Kg(less pad) and has 35 mm dia piston(2 pistons of cource, made from stainless 1.5 mm thin cup) Disk weight is 3.2Kg with 260 mm dia disk (It has ali bellmount and ventilated) Steel content of Pad (Gatorpad green for semi racing) material is much higher than original. l think it will be hurt the disk easier than original pad. If you change to 4 pod caliper for front, I think you should be better to check about front/rear balance and pedal stroke and foot force. I changed master cylinder dia to 1 inch and teflon brake hose like goodridge. Feeling is much better under normal speed, but in case of racing speed, rear brake does not work well. So I am looking forward to set the big piston for rear (about 34 mm dia) or P valve or balance bar now. by by *thumbup* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 So what pads are people (Rob?) using on the back calipers when they've uprated the fronts to AP's. I've got a set of front AP's in the garage with the pads that are supplied. Backs are God knows what now in terms of composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I changed the rear pads to the Pagid race ones. Have Ferodo race pads on AP 4 pot fronts. On the road on 185 021R's and cold braking the rears will just lock first but you have to want them to do that. On track with 9" rear slicks and 7" front slicks the balance is great. I am getting better braking overall now. The standard pads were suffering a bit and wore out much quicker than the fronts! I don't care about the road side of things too much. Can drive around that. Don't care that the Pagids eat the disks faster either. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I don't think Pagids eat discs, they don't seem particularly hard just particularly high friction in the same way that ACBs don't wear the road any more than 21Rs. The clever thing is that unlike ACBs Pagids don't seem to wear out quickly either, magic. Shame about the cost though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 AVES Pagid RS14 fitted all round. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Christian - you'll find on the track that 32s will result in the brakes overheating if driven hard. upgrading brakes is party to prevent this. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now