Matt Shears Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Calling you people in "the know", I have a Caterham 1.8vvc with a crankshat pulley problem. Whilst making the most of yesterdays dry weather the crankshaft pulley that drives the alternator came loose and I lost the alternator belt. The pulley did become loose recently on cold start however I was able to tighten it firmly enough to prevent any further movement and ensure the alternator was still charging. Since yesterdays problem there appears to be insufficient register on the sleeve that holds the woodruff (spelt this way??) key which the pulley is bolted up too. I stopped the car as soon as I heard a noise from pulley to prevent more serious problems. The cam belt looks fine! I am relatively new to Caterham ownership and do not have any diagrams /exploded views of this part of the car to check the parts that should be there and the correct configuration. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this information? Secondly has anyone experienced a simillar problem or know's how I can ensure this problem is properly fixed - other than sending the car to Caterham etc. Cheers Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Mat what do you mean insufficient register-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 As long as the bolt only came loose enough to allow the alternator pulley to spin then you may have been a very lucky boy! You will probably need a new lower pulley (as in cambelt drive) as the 'register' that locates the alt pulley wears away when its had the pulley spin against it! Last price for this was only about eight ukp from our local Rover dealer, but I think it was underpriced!!! Not a difficult job, but you will need to lock the cams etc as the cambelt WILL need to be removed. Good chance to renew it anyway. Piper Cams market a slightly wider than std competition belt that is about 31 UKP. Worth it IMHO. Get that crankshaft bolt torqued to the correct figure of 205nm & all should be OK! Edited by - chris clark on 29 Dec 2002 10:26:35 edited again as I mispelt 'wears' as weras (but not wheres!!) Edited by - chris clark on 29 Dec 2002 19:25:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Yes that is how you spell woodruff. Sadly thats the sum total of my useful contribution to this request...... I do know that this has happened several times before, as I recall seeing similar questions on the se7ens list and perhaps here too. Wait for Mr Oilyhands to come along. he'll put you right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Matt highly recommend Chris Clark's proposals, if the bolt has come loose then the Crank cambelt pulley may have rattled around on the end of the Crank creating a loose fit (found this on mine just a few weeks ago!). Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Get that crankshaft bolt torqued to the correct figure of 205nm & all should be OK! Quote from Chris *thumbup* *thumbup* No way should this come loose how old is the car , who was working at it??? You are a very lucky chappie do not drive the car untill the lower belt drive gear has been replaced and a new pulley by SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING as obviously who ever was last at your car didn't. This couild have been a very expensive repair equivalent to a belt break, Last time this happened to an aquaintance of mine on a VVC MGF Rover charged him 2.5 K jj jj N.I. L7C AO. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Shears Posted December 29, 2002 Author Share Posted December 29, 2002 Thanks to you all! Fred - The sleeve is not exposed enough to register the pulley on it before it is bolted up. Chris - Thats a real help I will follow what you have said. When I first looked at the problem the cam belt had come over the edge of the pulley by 3 - 4mm, is there any chance the cam belt could have jumped? Johnty - The car is 3 years old (1999) and has been looked after mostly by Caterham. It does look like someone has interfered with the cam cover at some point and I don't know exactly what the previous owners have tried themselves. Cheers Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 'When I first looked at the problem the cam belt had come over the edge of the pulley by 3 - 4mm, is there any chance the cam belt could have jumped?' Unlikely it's jumped but you were very lucky it didn't come off the front...... It's possible the Cambelt may be damaged though having run on the edges and out of true, it isn't worth taking the chance by not having it replaced. Suggest that if you don't want to sort it yourself you give James Whiting a call, he's your nearest specialist, he's based nr Sunbury Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Matt, I have seen this problem a couple of times, its likely that the crank timing pulley will need to be replaced, as Chris posted these are about £8, I would also replace the timing belt to be sure. Its also necessary to remove the starter motor in order to lock the engine at 90 DBTDC using the starter ring gear. locking the engine is also necessary to be able to torque up the front pulley bolt to 205 Nm, I would also put a drop of loctite on this bolt before insertion. DO NOT DRIVE OR START THE CAR UNTIL YOU HAVE THE FRONT PULLEY BOLT CORRECTLY TORQUED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Shears Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 Thanks guys I will let you know how I get on! Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Rob Matt you don't actually need to remove the starter on a K to lock the ring gear this can be done either side depending on wether tightning or loosening with a large old flat blade screwdriver on top of the main block supporting lobe. jj N.I. L7C AO. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Johnty Your new name should be Johnty the Octapus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Shears Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 I am pleased to say that with the help of someone that understands these matters mechanical we have fixed the problem with a new crank timing pulley, cam belt and alternator belt. It is fair to say the front pulley bolt will not be coming loose again after the use of some considerable force to ensure it was torqued to 205Nm. Thanks to you all for you help Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Just a minor point, but it saves messing about with the starter & special tools, you can lock the engine at 90BTDC by putting it in gear with the wheels chocked and the handbrake on. This works for serious crank pulley torque wrench action too, even 205Nm. Not that you care now because it's done Who assembled it in the first place? The correct recipe of 205Nm + Loctite shouldn't come loose in a million years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L. Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Just changed the cambelt on my 1.4 SS. Worth remembering that on the earlier engines the crankshaft sprocket ain't wide enough to accomodate the Piper belt ! Found this out on New Year's Eve so my only option with the car being in bits was to fit a standard pattern belt (eek) from my local auto supplies. So if anyone wants a Piper belt in the Beds/Herts/Cambs border country (or at the next Ace meeting), a tenner will get you it. (Unless I come across a wider crankshaft sprocket in the mean time !!) Is the 205 Nm figure from Rover ? Considering all the horror posts I've read here regarding the "undoing" of said bolt - I decided to clean mine up, apply loctite and torque to 120 Nm (it seemed to be done up to less than that when I undid it and the cars done over 30,000 miles). I'm always dubious about overtightening - most of the nasty jobs I have ended up doing on all sorts of cars and bikes stem from a over zealous previous tinkerer with a jack handle for a torque wrench. So, should I be re-loctiting and re-torquing this weekend ? On the same subject, does anyone think like me, that the "spring" on the "manual" cambelt tensioner seems rather a weedy affair ? I know it's subjective, but it would put my mind at rest if someone else feels the same !! Whilst rotating the engine the unclamped back-plate would smack against the clamp bolt at the point where the valve springs were being compressed, and the spring would only just move the back-plate away from the clamp bolt at the 90 BTDC point. Cambelt twist seems a tad more than 90 degrees on the longest run, so I guess it's OK. Got me the 50 miles to work this morning, so maybe I should stop worrying ! That's your company car !?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Just had the same thing happen to my 1.6k SS. See posting on chat, but basically charging light came on on the motorway, followed by a tinkle as the bolt bounced out down the motorway. Pulled over to find the pulley gently swinging in the sling created by the alternator belt, a few mm off the ground. Luckily the cam belt did not pop off, as has been mentioned. Just ordered new cam belt, timing gear and bolt from rover dealer. Perhaps it is something that is worth a quick check guys. Seems to of happened a fair bit considering that with 205Nm and Loctite it should not happen at all. Our car is a '96, we have only had it for 18 months. Had a cam belt change at service, so I guess at this point no loctite was used, maybe not enough torque? I think we are very lucky its only costing about £40 in parts, and not a couple of thousand! 😬32,000 miles in 15 months! angus@tinyworld.co.uk Caterham pics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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