K-series baffled sump kits

[Mankee]

Had a quick search but couldn't find much up-to-date info. So basically, does anyone currently supply a baffled sump kit for our shallow Caterham sump? Hellier or DVA maybe?

 

A fabrication pal text me this evening saying that a friend of his who makes Ford baffle kits is looking to branch out. I have a spare sump as well as fluctuating oil pressure (have removed the foam and drilled the holes before anyone pipes up) and finances that won't stretch to a dry sump so...

[NoLimits]

Try contacting Jason at Helliier performance I think they were his kits.

[SLR No.77]

Fit a dry sump.

 

Stu.

 

[Steve Sheldon]

I fitted one a couple of years ago made for me by Hellier Motorsport - it works well. Email me if you need more details.

[Klunk]

Put your glasses on Stu! 😬

 

Giles

[SLR No.77]

I did! There's a lot of time and money gets invested in a 203bhp K-Series .... I stand by my statement, fit a dry sump.

 

Stu.

[Graham King]

Mankee, I had the same dilemma as you. After my first track day with Apollo and no baffle where the OP drops away alarmingly on right hand bends, I managed to find a 2nd hand Hellier baffle and fitted that also making the gasket mods from DVA. To be honest I'm not sure it really has much effect, maybe it drops away slightly less but it's not that noticeable. I have left it in as it certainly doesn't have a negative effect. On track the OP still drops away seemingly as it did without one fitted, the biggest impact on OP seems to be the correct level rather than any baffle effect, I now tend to overfill slightly if on track. I tend to agree with Stu that a dry sump is the only answer but apart from cost they are no real options available on the market anymore, so unless you can find a 2nd hand one then you are a bit stuck.

 

Graham.

[SLR No.77]

I fitted a dry-sump to my last Caterham. Mostly second-hand parts - R500 magnesium belltank, purple scavenge pump, sump etc, then bought new hoses, dowty seals etc from Caterham. I had to buy a new bell-tank swirl tower because they just never appear s/h.

IIRC altogether it cost me around £600.

 

Stu.

[Myles]

I fitted the Hellier kit when they first became available and concluded that it was a waste of time and money. Easy as taking candy from a kid to get a pressure drop during the sustained cornering loads it was supposed to help protect against.

 

As roger notes, it seems to do no harm - but not much good either.

 

Edited by - Myles on 5 Mar 2014 15:28:34

[Graham King]

Mankee, here is the original thread I started a few years ago on this. You will note in the thread that DVA does offer to fabricate one that worked if there was enough interest. I did speak to Dave about this but in the end it didn't go anywhere. Personally I would still be interested if it could be revived.

 

Graham.

[elie boone]

And if you would use a Accusump, it would need some plumbing like a remote oilfilter but would have more effect than a sump baffle.

[Steve Cornford]

Hi Myles

Hellier have issued this guidance since receiving two complaints after the first 30 sales.

 

 

[SLR No.77]

My own experience ...... when you consider just how low the pick-up pipe sits in the sump .... my old car actually had marks on the internal face of the sump where the strainer sat, and how low the level needs to be to allow air to be drawn rather than oil, at the point of starvation there's not enough down their to start to try and control it with a baffle!

 

Driving aggressively (eg. on track) the K-Series will retain more oil in the head and also on the internal block wall, leaving less sat in the sump ... Oily's gasket mod substantially improves getting the oil back to the sump but getting enough sat around the strainer is a separate problem ... it'll likely be somewhere else in the sump.

I haven't used a Hellier baffle but I suspect it may well control oil movement ... including keeping it away from the strainer?

Overfilling a little on track can help but if you can't control aeration you simply magnify the problem. Definitely fit an Apollo, definitely do the gasket mod. If you're running 200bhp though you need a dry sump!

 

Stu.

[Mark Durrant]

Plenty of threads on the subject of the Hellier Baffle including these two see: here and here

[oilyhands]

A well designed baffle setup will have one way flaps that allow oil to move to the corralled part of the sump but not away from it.

 

AFAIK the Hellier kit was a cut down version of the one made for the Elise which has a differing requirement WRT oil movement as it is a transverse installation, the Caterham version didn't have one way flaps due to size constraints.

 

Oily ( err...)

 

 

Edited by - oilyhands on 6 Mar 2014 11:35:44

[SLR No.77]

So you're suggesting it's probably just a waste of a perfectly good piece of aluminium?

 

Stu.

[Mankee]

Thanks for all the insights. I know that the true answer to any oil pressure problems is a dry sump, but the finances of life (nappies, remortgaging, company startup) say no for the moment. I was hoping to get a bit more use out of my 200bhp engine before having to lash out big money on upgrades. In any case, my 1.9 will be dry-sumped for definite.

 

From the Hellier Baffle page on Myles' web page, one-way gates are there, but it still doesn't get away from the shallowness of the sump.

 

These are the Ford gated sump baffles that my mate's mate makes (!):

 

http://www.g19engineering.com/index.php?cat=21

 

Wondering if there is scope to modify the design to package it all into a Caterham sump that works well...

[SLR No.77]

You're re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, there's not enough oil down there to control effectively when you're chucking the car around with 200bhp available!

 

Stu.

[TomB]

So are you saying Stu that your engine failure at Oulton was just like the Titanic?

[SLR No.77]

Scavenge pump failure Tom ... it wouldn't have got that far on a wet sump though! Rebuilding the engine and the oil system has helped me focus on how critical oil delivery is, previously I just took it for granted.

 

Stu.

[elie boone]

A swivel pick up like they use on motorbikes would improve the oil pick up but not solve the problem. Space in the sump is limited bur surely a number of small one way flaps could be placed into it.

On the subject of foam, I wonder why no one tried a SS mesh instead of the foam.