auyt Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 My conclusion after reading and watch you tube "test" of different coolants, is EVENS is really suited to car that sit for extensive periods of time, but from what I have seen it isn't the B all, re corrosion protection, propylene glycol seems to be the bestI've always known water is the best of all however corrosion is the issue over time. So a corrosion inhibitor and demineralised water is what I have decided to use or a Premix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 23, 2019 Member Share Posted May 23, 2019 ... re corrosion protection, propylene glycol seems to be the bestWhat studies have you found that show that?ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Why demineralised water rather than tap water?I appreciate that you add an inhibitor, but when you remove the minerals the water will try to re-gain balance by stealing the minerals from the surroundings.In other words: Demineralised water on its own is agressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auyt Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Good question JohnathanI found this test which by any standard is basic but be that as it may, it’s the result of the same metal type samples in different coolants and after 12 months of static immersion in different types of coolant and Propylene had the lest corrosion. Take note of the effect Evans has on the three metals. The test is not totally definitive But it’s simple. rj tap water has other natural minerals dissolved in it and of these there are a level of dissolved salts, where I live the water has a concentration of dissolved calcium, making the water “hard”. Yes demineralised water will create its own corrosion but only with metals it comes in contact with iron/ steal an Aluminium.And to add another complexity is the black compound in the rubber hoses( that what corrodes the aluminium castings the worst.)So why not give the system a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auyt Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 More googling I found some point differences between propylene glycol and ethylenehttps://www.monarchchemicals.co.uk/Information/News-Events/700-/The-difference-between-Propylene-Glycol-and-Ethylene-Glycol-in-antifreezeThe level of toxicity. Propylene glycol has a very low toxicity, which is why it is also found in cosmetics and personal care products, whereas ethylene glycol is poisonous and must be handled with caution to restrict any human or animal exposure.So why not just use propylene glycol? There are a number of benefits using ethylene glycol over propylene glycol, especially in closed loop systems were risk of contact with food is minimal. For example, freeze point depression is much more effective using ethylene glycol – so more propylene glycol would be required to maintain the same freeze point as ethylene. As well as this, due to the lower viscosity of ethylene glycol it possesses excellent heat transfer properties.This article is the differnce between Glycol Heat-Transfer Fluids Ethylene Glycol versus Propylene Glycolhttp://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21823,Glycol.pdfInteresting pont about water qualityWater Quality: High quality water will help maintain system efficiency and prolong glycol fluid life. Recommended water characteristics include: Less than 50 ppm calcium (as CaCO3), Less than 50 ppm magnesium (as CaCO3), Less than 100 ppm total hardness (as CaCO3), Less than 25 ppm chloride (as CaCO3), and Less than 25 ppm sulfate (as CaCO3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative admaraujo Posted May 25, 2019 Area Representative Share Posted May 25, 2019 So, to the questions post, there have been three replies... auyt encouraging a survey. NeilCSR replying why he does use Evans rj replying why he does not use Evans From the amount of posts this has generated, I would expect more replies to those two survey questions (thank you auyt for the right term). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 25, 2019 Member Share Posted May 25, 2019 I would expect more replies to those two survey questions... You didn't ask why Members don't use Evans Waterless Coolant...Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 25, 2019 Member Share Posted May 25, 2019 The test is not totally definitive But it’s simple. ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 25, 2019 Member Share Posted May 25, 2019 Toxicology and thermal capacity discussed earlier, and probably not contentious. Thermal transfer is. Evans say that engines will run hotter but add that their product avoids local boiling. I'm not aware of any evidence that that occurs in the engine systems under consideration....http://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21823,Glycol.pdfInteresting pont about water qualityWater Quality: High quality water will help maintain system efficiency and prolong glycol fluid life. Recommended water characteristics include: Less than 50 ppm calcium (as CaCO3), Less than 50 ppm magnesium (as CaCO3), Less than 100 ppm total hardness (as CaCO3), Less than 25 ppm chloride (as CaCO3), and Less than 25 ppm sulfate (as CaCO3).That is interesting, and I'd often wondered about it. I use premixed coolant....But accidental poisoning and DIY dilution are connected. One of the ways that children (and possibly adults) get poisoned by antifreeze is by drinking the leftover bit from eg a drinks bottle that has been used to do the diluting: looks like a drinks bottle, no safety cap, brightly coloured, sweet... and you only need to ingest a small volume to cause problems.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative admaraujo Posted May 25, 2019 Area Representative Share Posted May 25, 2019 Funny you didn’t mention, why I also didn’t ask why members use Evans Waterless Coolant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auyt Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 But accidental poisoning and DIY dilution are connected. One of the ways that children (and possibly adults) get poisoned by antifreeze is by drinking the leftover bit from eg a drinks bottle that has been used to do the diluting: looks like a drinks bottle, no safety cap, brightly coloured, sweet... and you only need to ingest a small volume to cause problems.There are two types of glycol Ethylene glycol. This is the most common used in cooling systems and is poisonous Propylene glycol . This actually used in food production equipment because it’s not as toxic this is good article on the difference. And these you cannot mixhttp://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21823,Glycol.pdfthe article also takes about the efficiency of the two Ethylene is slightly better, both are corrosive so both require anti corrosive additives, and the anti corrosive additive has a twelve months life... interesting as manufacturers sell premix with 7 year life.In my case as my engine made in 1968 (now freshly rebuilt with BRM valve and port spec head, 11.1 comp with LOTUS Sprint cams) so I planning a coolant change with each oil change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 Water Quality: High quality water will help maintain system efficiency and prolong glycol fluid life. Recommended water characteristics include: Less than 50 ppm calcium (as CaCO3), Less than 50 ppm magnesium (as CaCO3), Less than 100 ppm total hardness (as CaCO3), Less than 25 ppm chloride (as CaCO3), and Less than 25 ppm sulfate (as CaCO3). Am I reading that incorrectly or is their chemistry a bit awry?Less than 50 ppm magnesium (as CaCO3). Did they mean "as MgCO3"? Less than 25 ppm chloride (as CaCO3). Did they mean "as CaCl2" Less than 25 ppm sulfate (as CaCO3). Did they mean "as CaSO4"JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auyt Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Good Question, looks like it has not been edited fully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 31, 2019 Member Share Posted May 31, 2019 It's not a mistake, it's a widely used way of describing hardness because it can be caused by different species:Wikipedia"Why is water hardness measured in terms of CaCO3?"Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Thanks, Jonathan.The hardness of water is expressed in terms of ppm [of CaCO3] because the molecular weight of calcium carbonate is 100gm/mol. It is easy to calculate.Neat. That point had escaped me!The hardness is not entirely due to calcium – magnesium is usually present to some extent and other multivalent cations. When the hardness is expressed as CaCO3, it is calculated as if the magnesium, etc. were there as calcium. It also includes ... chloride, sulphate and nitrate.Ah, so. That's what triggered my original comment.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 19, 2020 Member Share Posted December 19, 2020 Bounce.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Haven't read all 191 posts (sorry!) but......I use Bluecol and distilled water in my crossflow with ali rad, with distilled water carried in the car in case I need to top-up.Good or bad? Thanks.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 19, 2020 Member Share Posted December 19, 2020 Which Bluecol product, Andy?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john g Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 This is interesting for me, I was about to post, which coolant for a xflow. I will watch with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lowe Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 This is what Radtec recommend for use in their ali rads: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandalman Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 It's interesting to me as well. I'd love to know what is thought to be the best for a K series Superlight. The answer may be buried somewhere in those 195 posts but it's too daunting. Perhaps some kind soul with the required technical knowledge could draw up a chart for all models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 It's a minefield. Personally, I'd use Comma G30 (as I did in my 1999 1.8K for many years). In 1999, CC didn't specify any more precisely than "Antifreeze containing a corrosion inhibitor should be maintained at a 33% proportion". For the later cars, they recommended "Comma X-stream Red OAT" (aka G30) for Duratecs and "Ford Super Plus Anti-freeze" for Sigmas.There's some background reading here and here and here -- and that's just for starters!JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I am keeping to what it says in the Owner's Handbook for my 2012 K which is Comma Xtream Red OAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative admaraujo Posted December 23, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted December 23, 2020 I am using Evans, in a K-series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 28, 2022 Member Share Posted December 28, 2022 Bounced to the top, as it's just been raised in another thread.I'm not aware of either new formulations or new evidence since we last discussed it.Happy ChristmasJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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