k.russell Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 thinking of fitting a dry sump system to my hpc 2ltr vx, have been looking at past threads on subject, and had a look at sbd kit on there site i would welcome any advice, info, on fitting, and parts, is it a diy job, my car is factory standard on 45's. might also consider fitting stronger rod bolts whilst engine out sump off, advice welcome kev russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wallace Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Kev, I am thinking about doing the same to my VX HPC. I have been looking at the Pace web site and on the advice of Andy at Blackbird Motor Sport contacted Neil at Pace. The Caterham system is about £850 plus the tank (about £120) and the pipe work. Andy thought he could fit the system without removing the engine in a couple of days. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has fitted the Pace system, I think SDB market the Pace sytem. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I think it's more like Pace manufacture the SBD system. Whether Pace will deal direct is another thing altogether of course.... You don't need the engine out. With the SBD system you do need to take the front cover off and replace the oil pump and cover with the dummy front cover. This means cam belt off, crank pulley off (180lbft plus 45 deg or something like that) so it is easier to do with the engine out. You obviously need the sump off so you could fit rod bolts (and that's definetly a good idea) whether the engine is in or out. Caterham's system leaves the oil pump in place so would probably be easier to do if the engines still in but personally I would think the benefits of the SBD type of system outweigh the few additional fittng difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I did the whole install in less than a day and for under £500 all in using secondhand parts sourced mostly from this site. The secret to a quick, cheap and easy job is to use an external Xflow type tank and not the Caterham bell-housing one. This also auguably gives a better system, which can hold more oil and doesn't require engine removal to fit. I'll be happy to answer any questions, just e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I let SBD do mine and they blew my engine to bits. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wallace Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Chelspeed, so its a SBD design made by Pace is that right? Arnie, I won't be getting SBD to fit it, I just want to know if the system is a good design. Stewart, Installing it in one day is good going!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted December 14, 2002 Author Share Posted December 14, 2002 arnie looked at your site, and you have pace system, did sbd just fit wrongly?. does this meen i am better off fitting myself, and the components are good for the job. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Mine was a Pace Slim Jim pump with a very poor mounting design which required the bolts holding the pump together to be torqued in situ to fit the rear pump mount. This in my case (and it was fitted by SBD) caused the pump to skew and the metal rotors to send debris through the big ends causing a rod to emerge from the block. Prior to this the car developed an oil leak due to the bad design of SBD's front cover which fitted a BSP screw fitting onto the engine front cover with M4 threads into thinish ally - needless to say the theads stripped in use, and when I took the car to them to be fixed the re-fitted the front cover (now sporting timeserts) with incorrect length bolts causeing the front cover to be jacked away from the block and leak oil. They told me I had "bent the front cover" and forced me to pay £200 to fix it by refusing to release the car. I am sure they have likley resolved the mechanical inadequacies of thier products over the last few years, but I am still very suspect of SBD and particularly Dick Culbert(?)'s mechanical skills. The best dry sump system IMO is the Pace Slim Jim pump (I changed the mounting) with a Caterham sump pan )mates to bellhousing best and is raked so provides a good skid for those speed bump moments) Best tank is an external as it has greater capacity and prevents release bearing seal failures assocuated with the bellhousing tank/hydraulic cyl system. I have a drawing of the tank in my car which shows the general layout with two breathing plenums. Works very well. Also running a breather form the cam cover to the top of the DS tank means all the oil stays in the engine. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 I did the conversion mid seasion and in a hurry. Pace 2 stage pump, QED pan and fitting kit, Tank and unions / hose from local motorsports place. So far all has worked very well and was easy enough to fit. Some of the hoses are a little tight on space to work with. The pan fitted up like a dream and does not leak in the slightest. The oil feed adapter through the pan and into the oil pump pick up obviously fitted and sealed as good pressure was attained. I shortened my pass footwell and mounted the tank 1" higher than the chassis rails. When it came to cranking up the pressure with the plugs out it came up in record short time far sooner than the wet sump system where oil is sucked from lower down. I do get a little decantation from the tank to the sump but it has never caused any problems at all. There are some pics of my not too pretty BUT functional installation on my site under 'more links' 'race mods' and larger pics on one of the photo links at the bottom. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Needless to say SBD's interpretation of the Arnie Webb dry sump saga is different from Arnies. I'm not saying anything further on this subject as I've only heard SBD's side of the story and I think Arnies falling out with SBD is well known and has been done to death on blat chat in the past. Dick Hulbert is a time served Aerospace trained technician/engineer, he knows a bit about working with this sort of kit. I'd trust him with anything on my car. I have the same dry sump system from SBD which is about 2 years newer than Arnies. Perhaps thay have modified the design (they use the right length bolts in any case) but it's perfectly OK on mine, well engineered by SBD, well made by Pace, superbly fitted (by me!!). SBD now have a new dry sump pan option which is very shallow. It uses a bolted in windage plate so you can dump the standard Vx one, it uses an o ring rather than gasket(s) so it bolts up direct to the block. I guess this gives a stronger assembly but not noticeable to me, just much easier and neater to use than than the gasketted one (and 30 quid cheaper in gaskets each time it comes on and off). I've also cut away the bottom half of the bellhousing (as I run the smaller flywheel and geared starter) and milled off all the fins on the sump pan, this gives me nearly 2 inches more ground clearance than with the standard SBD pan and standard bellhousing or than with the Caterham dry sump pan which is flat across the bottom and level with the bottom of the bellhousing. Well worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 The QED pan has it's own mini windage plate much lighter than the standard one. I used silicone gasket sealer to make my oil tight seal to the block. The above pan and belhousing option sounds interesting for low riders... /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Edited by - stevefoster on 15 Dec 2002 17:32:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted December 15, 2002 Author Share Posted December 15, 2002 stevefoster thanks for advice so far, just some 🤔,lookes like you still have oil filter mounted in original place, and scav pump is above it, is this pump mounted via front plate or on brackets, also understand it is quite a job fitting front pulley. qed fairly local to me so can speak to them regarding sump etc. notice you have v large tank, can it be done with anything smaller, would like to keep passenger footwell. kev russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hi, does anyone run a remote filter or is the block mounted original up to the job ? Kind regards Anthony X-Flow-power; the real way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 If you use the SBD kit the replacement front cover has no provision for a filter so you use a remote one. This isn't a bad thing as the standard filter is very small and very vulnerable when you go dry sump as it fits so low down. The SBD pump bolts to a pair of lugs on the replacement front cover, there are lugs each side so that you can mount the pump either on the inlet or the exhaust side. Mines on the inlet side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 On the off-chance you find a cheap bell/tank housing or are interested in one, I've a few pictures of such. Email me direct if interested. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wallace Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 What size and shape oil tank is the best for the VXE2LT. I have a quote for a 115mm (4.5 inch) by 500mm one, but is this the correct size? Is the best mounting point on the shortened passanger foot well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Take a look (if you want) at my website www.mospeed.de There are quite a few engine-bay and engine-out pictures around at section "tech-spec". Had no problems so far exept a snapped pump-belt at Spa... ☹️ Was expensive but nobodys´ else fault but mine... Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 thanks marius enjoyed your site, good photos, can remember seeing and liking your immaculate car at curborough earlier in year. good photo of your oil pump, and tank. seems you use spd system, which pump is it, im still as they advertise pumps, c type, that fit on brackets, and also front cover mounted pumps. has anyone any experience of bracket type pump. kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I posted a pic of my DS tank design at http://www.the-webbs.com/oiltank.jpg This tank has a working capacity of 4.6 litres which when combined with the filter (0.3l), sump residual (0.5.l)and plumbing (1.0l) gives a system capacity of around 6.8 litres - works well. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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