Fred Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Would the members who have Caterham dry sump systems fitted to their cars, tell me if they have heard this type of noise from the pump sucking the oil from the sump. Caterham have informed me that it is quite normal for it to give a chirping of clucking sound when the engine is running on tick-over or when you just blip the engine. The vehicle in question is a new R400 and it just does not sound right to me, although the noise just disappears when you increase the revs, and also disappears when you remove the oil filler cap from the cam cover. I have spend two days trying to isolate this noise, but cannot. Other than it coming from the drivers side of the block. I have recorded the sound which is more distinctive in real time. Sorry about the quality of the recording, but you can distinctly hear the tapping and rattling when the engine is running. This only happens when the engine is hot. It takes about 1min for the sound to download to the page. Give me you opinion. here . Thanks for being patient with the download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Perfectly normal if you are running with the engine sealed. The big question is , is running with the engine sealed the best thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 Rob what is your opinion running with the engine sealed as the vents are blocked and a label from ministers state not to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I was listening to your car on Sunday Fred, and it sounded lovely of course I was over 100 metres away and in my own garden, prolly only 75 db or so Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 That was my wife doing the hoovering Mr hoy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 bit hard to tell from the recording, but sounds like the 'duck quacking' of the DS scavenge pump sucking air. Strangely after a 1000 miles or so, mine stopped doing it! Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 ours does this, from time to time. i thought it was the CRB but am informed it's our dry sump. stops when over 1000 rpm, only at idle. whole car has been checked and re-checked by RatRace, who I trust. Just a normal sound, from a device many cars on the road don't have, don't sweat it as others have said. Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our 7 and rallye pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 As with many things there are pros and cons. On the plus side there will be less oil vented from the bell tank breather, less windage due to less oil mist within the engine which may liberate more power. On the negative side IMHO the rear crankshaft seal can suffer and leak due the vacuum that remains within the engine after the oil pressure has gone on shut down, this vacuum pulls the seal inwards and off the crank. Its been suggested than oil retention in the head and poor drainage of oil down from the head are not helped by running sealed. There also must be greater losses to turn the pump producing this vacuum as apposed to running without vacuum, I intend to measure this at my next RR session. My advise is run sealed if your car is still under warrenty. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 11, 2002 Author Share Posted December 11, 2002 JUST LIKE TO SAY THANKS TO ALL WHO REPLIED I CAN 😬 ONCE MORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 rob if one has a sealed system, where does one put a breather safely? i've got a vhpd K series with a dry sump. is it a simple matter of a breathing cap on the oil filler thingie on the top of the engine? Steve Metalic Black SV-VHPD click here to see our 7 and rallye pictures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Sealed system? Breather? These are mutually exclusive. One or the other. What are you getting at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Steve, I run the breather from the top of the belltank to my catchtank which I have fixed to my bulkhead, I then run a larger bore pipe from the top of the catch tank to vent below the car. This takes away all the nasty oil smells below the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 ..nasty oil smell ????? Now I haven´t read this one, Rob ! Shame on you ! Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Rob, I think Steve means a breather to the head, not to the catch tank from the bell-tank housing, which he should already have. I run a breather from the head to the catch tank. I have a piece of foam in the hole in the top of the catch tank, rather than the cap with holes in it. The fumes which make it to the catch tank mean that the foam is effectively "self-oiled", thus providing some filtration of air entering the head. I believe PC runs a natty little K&N type filter on his engine's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 11, 2002 Author Share Posted December 11, 2002 This gets more confusing by the day. like rob i have a catch tank with the pipe under the car to remove fumes . here This is the part that i am confused with. caterham now tell me to remove the larger of the two blanking plugs from the cam cover, and fit a hose from the cam cover back to the catch tank. I.M.O. all this will do is vent the engine. SO why is it that ministers have a large label stating DO NOT REMOVE THE RUBBER BLANKING PLUGS FROM THE CAM COVER . Now that i know what the noise is i am no longer worried. BUT WHO IS RIGHT MINISTER OR CATERHAM ENGINE BUILDER OR CATERHAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 BUT WHO IS RIGHT MINISTER OR CATERHAM ENGINE BUILDER OR CATERHAM no one is right , as nothing has been proven one way or another . There are differing opinions but no hard facts on this subject re head drainage , pumping losses , rear oil seals , crankcase pressures , power gains ....... As Rob said a few questions regarding power benifits will be ansered at the next rolling road test by doing a back to back - sealed and atmo on both our cars Minister have sugested that the rear oil seal should be checked regularly . The head will still retain oil to a set level as the engine is canted over at 7 or 8 degrees . In order to maintain your warranty I would run with what was supplied , unless you recieve otherwise in writting . dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 If you remove the large rubber plugs from your cam cover, this will allow air to be drawn into the top of the engine. Therefore the engine will no longer be running sealed and the scavenge pump will no longer create a vacuum within the engine, but it will be necessary for the air entering the engine to be filtered at the entry point or you risk drawing in dust/grit into your engine. Oil consumption will be slighty increased as a greater amout of oil vapour will be vented from the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now