Support Team Shaun_E Posted August 29, 2014 Support Team Share Posted August 29, 2014 No rolling road result is required but if there is some evidence that a car may not meet the regs for the class it is entered in then the club can request and pay for a rolling road power run (or the comp sec can simply move the car to a differenct class at his discretion). We've never had to do this and rely on competitors honesty. We have a pretty good understanding of what power a car makes based on it's specification. The speed a car achieves through the speed trap at certain events is also a good indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No. This is Clubman motorsport and we wish it to remain that way. If anyone thinks they will gain by going over the stated BHP and gaining an advantage - they would be wrong. We watch all speed traps throughout the year and soon see where someone has an advantage. The rules are clear and if a car falls outside of the power limits I would expect that member to enter the appropriate class. Its not all about power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Quoting Simon.Rogers: I would like to see a Standard R300 K on the rollers and see what the actual power produced is. I suspect it would fall into 2 or 3 other than the roller barrels. So there could be room for dispensation. Simon My car is a standard R300k on TBs & puts out 154.9 bhp (mapped recently) from an original 160. Of course I have a vested interest but to be up against 210bhp cars puts me at some disadvantage which is disappointing for next year ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Phil, it's another item to be discussed in the tech forum at the end of the year I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thx Matt - just want to feel it's a level playing field but acknowledge that getting a set of rules that works for all is -er - challenging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 That's exactly why the rules are changing. Next year you would be in class 2 or 3 depending on tyre choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Unless I've got it wrong, based on the current proposals for next year I would still be in class 4 next year due to roller barrels even though my car has a proven 155bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted August 30, 2014 Area Representative Share Posted August 30, 2014 Simon, the first post setting out the proposals for next year reads:- Quoting New Comp Sec: Class 2 Must be road legal. 155bhp power limit with a capacity of up to 1800cc. K series cars must retain the standard plenum. Zetec cars must be on carbs. No motorbike engines. 1a tyres with max. width of 205mm. No sequential gearboxes or driver aids. Class 3 As per Class 2 apart from 1b tyres. Therefore, Phil's R300 with its roller barrels would still be a class 4 car (but vastly out classed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Phil, Richard, you are both correct. The standard plenum regulation was put in there to limit the extent to which somebody could develop their engine and then fine tune it for exactly 155bhp over a massive rev range using a programmable ECU. We also need to think about having a nominated rolling road that everybody has to use if requested by the Comp Sec. This is due to the huge variety in results from different rolling roads. Dad's car went on two rolling roads last winter and there was a 13bhp discrepancy between them. Another item to be discussed at season's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 It seems unlikely that anybody who was deliberately running with too much power for their class, would turn up at a nominated rolling road with their car still in the same state of tune. For that reason I think we have to continue with the speed trap monitoring etc. described earlier in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The standard plenum inclusion is news to me. Not what I recall being discussed and agreed. The idea was that all rules be minimal so as to allow the most cost effective and efficient way for an individual to achieve the stated power. Everyone will have different goals beyond that particular years competition. There is in my opinion only one way to do this and its all or nothing! Half measures will leave us with half an idea! Either leave it as it is or 155 and no other rules. This R300 is the prime example of why I made the proposal in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Simon, the regs in the first post are exactly as we agreed last year. I haven't changed the wording since I made that original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Quoting Simon.Rogers: No. This is Clubman motorsport and we wish it to remain that way. If anyone thinks they will gain by going over the stated BHP and gaining an advantage - they would be wrong. We watch all speed traps throughout the year and soon see where someone has an advantage. The rules are clear and if a car falls outside of the power limits I would expect that member to enter the appropriate class. Its not all about power! Thanks Simon and Shaun E, was curious as I could see that as an additional expense, that was my reason for asking, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I was only having a discussion today in the paddock. I was planning on putting my TB on the supersport engine and getting it mapped. I thought the regs were 155bhp. no discussion on how you get there. This plemum rule seems odd, its either 155bhp or it is not. The aim of the rule was to let everyone tune there engine if they feel they want to as long as its only 155bhp. So we are now saying if you have an R300 on roller barrels you can not reduce the power by 5bhp and play in class 2 or 3. I think that's ridicules and short sighted. (toys out of pram) 1.6 K were only meant to be tuned to 155BHP while X-flows were allowed to go to 160BHP. As so often with the clubs regs they always seam to get written in away that was not discussed at the meetings. Class 4 was meant to be SLR spec with original TB but that failed to make the regs. So as a member how currently has a class 3, 4 and 5 engine and I am not the only one can we just make life easy. It 155BHP anyway you like in class 2 and 3 and class 4 is 210BHP. Its simple and can not be misunderstood by anyone. So if the wording has not change it needs to. Reduce the rules keep it simple. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm not going to respond now as this can all be discussed when we launch the tech forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Just for the record - I have not seen or spoken to David since this thread was resurrected! I was collecting the SV on Sunday and David was on his way to Loton. Hope you all had a good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame W Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Seems there were quite a number of different discussions happening in the paddock over the weekend regarding next years regs. From the ones I was involved in there were certainly a high percentage of people who missed the standard plenum reg and assumed it was free for all up to 155bhp Personally I like the simplicity of just a power rule, we need to be sure the class power limits sit well with the Caterham standard product range past and present (as is suggested for class 4) but as a consequence of such freedom I cannot see us escaping the need for either mandatory or class winner power checks on a specified rolling road (the additioonal cost in a season of competing is negligable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I agree with Matthew and the time to discuss this is when he opens the Tech Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Grahame I understand your comments regarding the checking of power produced etc but if it goes that way then I suggest we retain the existing regs. It will promote a negative atmosphere about who has what power etc. Again its Clubman competition and we have never had to resort to checking in the past. Class 4 has operated in this format for a number of years quite successfully. We either have to be prescriptive in fine detail for all combinations (and what if someone builds something different?) or its the simple power - whichever way you want to get there route. Matt - thats no problem making no comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 As you know Matthew is stepping down as Comp Sec as he currently does not have the time to dedicate to the roll. Therefore, please can we respect his request to discuss this when the Tech Forum is opened which is usually after the last event in the season. I am sure he will not object to you discussing the 2015 regs in the paddock at forthcoming events. However, this may be academic as without a Comp Sec for next year the future is uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As the Tech Forum is being discussed thought this thread could do with a BTTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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