"Running-In" 1800 X-Power

[sjwb]

The simple reason for changing oil at a pre-determined period after build is to clear any manufacturing and initilal running debris out before the unit is used in anger. A dying action, now that manufacturers build 'cleaner' engines, with better oils.

 

Steve B

[ChrisG]

I appreciate what's been said about manufacturers not doing this, but being a cynic I'd say that just because they don't specify an oil change until 10k miles, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best thing for the health/performance of the engine! The manufacturer will also take various non-technical aspects into consideration, such as monetary and marketing reasons, when determining the service intervals. I would imagine this is especially relevent to manufacturers who sell large numbers to the fleet/company car industry where servicing intervals are a major factor when considering purchases.

 

With the more performance orientated marques such as Porsche, it may well be that they fully run-in their engines on a dyno before they leave the factory anyway, though I very much doubt that the larger volume manufacturers do this to the same extent, and so will leave a portion of the running in to be done whilst the car does its first road miles, and do use oil to suit this purpose. Minister evidently run all the X Power engines for at least 3 hours on the dyno before shipping out. This is done for the very reason of running in the engine and is done with running-in specific oil, but whether 3 hours is considered sufficent to fully run an engine in, I am unsure, so there may well still be a case for additional running in being required.

 

Glazing bores is nothing whatever to do with the type of oil used; it is a function of how an engine is used or designed

I agree with the second bit, but it's primarily how the engine is used straight after being (re)built that is relevent, and it can be certainly be affected at this time by the type of oil used. Bore glazing occurs when there is excessive blow-by of combustion gasses during the run-in period, the "glaze" is basically oil residue that burns into the honing marks on the bore. If the rings do bed in correctly, they will do their job properly and keep the combustion gasses and the oil seperated. There will be very little/no gasses passing the rings to burn the oil, and likewise, no oil passing the rings and being subjected to the combustion gasses, so no glazing will occur. Like you mentioned, labouring or pussyfooting with a new engine can cause this as the cylinder pressures don't vary enough to force the rings to wear evenly against the cylinder bore, but likewise, if the oil lubricates too well at this initial stage, it can't help but also hinder the process as it won't allow the rings to wear sufficiently to seal.

 

I found this page which is quite useful: here. It's written referring to motorcycle engines, but is equally relevent to car engines, particularly the lower part of the page where it talks about the use of synthetic oil and the Q&A below it.

 

Chris

 

Edited by - chrisg on 9 Dec 2002 10:36:06

[Tony C]

That advice sounds very interesting and seems to make a lot of sense - on the surface.

Wonder what Oily thinks?

Tony

 

Isn't the www amazing!

[tom7]

For the same reason that manufacturers state long intervals to change oil in the fleet sector, it is equally the case that low volume manufacturers where vehicles tend to do low mileages recommend more frequent oil changes to generate dealer throughput and revenue.

This is certainly the case at Lotus where the sevice intervals are designed to generate dealer traffic compared with MGF's where the same engine has to work harder dragging around all that extra weight.

 

Tom

[Grim Reaper]

The comment regarding the modern engines being cleaner during manufacturing made me laugh!

I recently bought a brand new VVC unit from Rover,took it apart to give the head to Oily,and the rods off to fit steel ones,and there were bits of metal already embedded in the big end bearings!

The engine has never been started (there is no soot or combustion markings in the bores or on the plugs) so it looks like the unit "may" have only been run by an external source to make sure it turned over.

Clean my 🙆🏻

[ChrisG]

Scary aint it, I had a similar experience, albeit not with a new engine.

I bought a second hand '99 Fireblade engine with 5k on the clock for my Locost, and I dropped the sump and found a few shards of ally in the sump. I immediately called the breaker and complained, but they were complete 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 and didnt want to know saying I shouldnt have removed the sump as it was against their T's n C's, and that I'd probably already installed it and blown it up.

Anyway, I thought I'd take the shards round to the local Honda dealership workshop to get their advice on it so that in the event that the engine was shafted, it would possibly give me more legal weight if it got nasty with the breaker.

The mechanic whipped out a magnet, said "ah, only ally, quite often find them in the sumps of a lot of these engines, its where the oilways arent flushed through properly when they are built". He said that he'd stripped several engines with larger shards found in the sump, but found them to be perfect, and went on to say that he'd even seen entire coils of ally in sumps where a milling machine had cut a thread, but the swarf hadnt been flushed out! 😳

With this slightly worrying yet comforting news that maybe the engine was OK after-all, I installed it and happily it runs perfectly, done about 5 trackdays with it since and no problems whatsoever.

 

Chris

 

Edited by - chrisg on 13 Dec 2002 00:48:48

[sjwb]

If a milling machine cut a thread, we are in the sh1t

 

Steve B

[martinwhitcher]

Yep agree!!!! *eek* *eek*

 

Martin

 

MW 51 CAT

[ChrisG]

They're obviously in the sh1t here then 😬 😬

Seriously tho, was thinking "machining" and wasnt really thinking too much about wot I was typing TBH

 

 

Edited by - chrisg on 13 Dec 2002 00:45:53

[Bafty Crastard]

What is evident through out this thread is in inconsistency regarding both "running-in" the engine and also what grade of oil to use, especially from Caterham themselves.

 

Caterham after sales are telling me "YES.....Run-in the engine using Eurolite 10w-40 semi-synthetic,

then use only Syna-Z 0w-40". Caterham Technical help department say "run-in using Syna-Z 0w-40" from the off. Caterham's engine supplier say use a 15w50 grade from the off. ☹️ And of course an-other, use every oil between 5w-40 to 15w-50 and run-in the engine....er... or may be not

 

What is certain if you use an oil grade not recommended by Caterham you ain't going to be successful with a warranty claim

 

 

 

Edited by - Bafty Crastard on 13 Dec 2002 08:30:28

[martinwhitcher]

Well, Rover recommend and use 10w-40

 

Martin

 

MW 51 CAT

[ChrisG]

If it's one of the X-Power engines, I would speak to Minister and take that as gospel, I'm sure they know the engine's needs more than Caterham. If what they say differs to what Caterham say, I'd ask Caterham why.

Surely if there is a warranty claim on an X-Power engine and you've been following what Minister say, it would be very hypocritical of Caterham to say it wasnt covered, especially as they in turn would probably go back to Minister and claim against them.

 

Chris