Bafty Crastard Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 Looking in the build manual and the owners hand book I can find no reference to what oil to "run-in" an "X power" 1800 engine, the only mentioned is a 0w-40 synthetic. Speaking to Caterham, they say use that ! What no mineral oil to the "run/bed-in" the engine R300 NUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveP Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 If you get no better response from Caterham, you could drop an email to Minister engines - they make them after all (well, the R3,4,500 ones anyhow) And let us know, as I'll be doing the same thing in the New Year SteveP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted December 5, 2002 Author Share Posted December 5, 2002 Well Mr Caterhams supplier is suggesting 15w-50 Mobil 1 Motorsport from the word go 😳 At 8 litres oil capacity oil change's are going to be expensive ☹️ R300 NUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I use Redline 10w-40 and can strongly recommend it, brought 8ltr for £64 inc delivery (incl club discount 😬) top oil!! If you want name & number let me know Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I thought it wasnt good practice to be running fully synthetic in a brand new engine? Something to do with bedding the rings in, with synthetic this doesnt happen so well, so can cause problems as you don't get good piston sealing etc. I've always read/been told its best to use mineral for the first few thousand, then switch to synthetic. Martin, do you get your oil through Gavin at Redline? Chris Edited by - chrisg on 5 Dec 2002 17:22:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwb Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 This is rather aggravating. Do you ever hear of manufacturers using running in oil? Porsche, Jaguar, Aston. No I thought not. So why do we constantly get such response to repeated lubrication related questions? Especially when relevant to fairly ordinary engines. Perhaps this is why Caterham make no mention! I believe that the oil-man put to bed many issues a couple of months ago. Steve B Edited by - sjwb on 6 Dec 2002 09:22:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Jones Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 If the engine builder has done his job properly it will have been run on a dyno for an hour or two and the oil changed, it ahould have been as they charge lots for them. Also do Rover/MG have a 500 type mile oil change or not if they do then MG use running in type oil if not they are bench run. Just thrash it from the word go its a K so it'll never last that long any way 😳 Paul. See My Car Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 Start with the oil you plan to use forever. Don't take the piss for the first few hundred miles, but don't pussyfoot about. Happiness will ensue. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Chris, Yes top bloke 😬 Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 When I had my 1.6 litre 100bhp X/Flow uprated to 1.8 litre and 155bhp by Roger King, he recommended a fully synthetic oil from the word go. He explained that in 'olden' days the machining was fairly coarse so that the 'marks' of the machining (rather like minute bolt threads) would wear off during early running - and non synthetic oil and an early oil change was recommended. In new engines (AND my X/Flow after being bored out etc) the machining technique is much advanced and that this is no longer necessary. Roger's explanation was far more technical than I have portrayed but that's the gist of it. On my new R300 I intend to use fully synthetic from the word go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffiths Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Interesting topic, first oil change on our MG ZT190 is at 15K miles. When purchased we asked the dealer if there was any need to do an early interim change, they said 'no need' Peter 7 Rosina C7 PRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Board Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Having just purchased a factory built 1800x power 2 months ago I can confirm that you use synthetic from the off! If you think about it you need to give the engine the best possible protection from day one. To run mine in I stuck to about 4500 RPM for 500 miles with the occasional blip to 5000 RPM. Then at 500 miles I went to 5000 RPM and increased the limit by 500 RPM every 100 miles. Now with 1900miles on the clock the car is well run in. However, it WILL take a good few thousand miles to "bed" in with modern oils. I am expecting mine to fully loosen up after about 6-8000 miles. The important thing is do not labour the engine. Hope this helps Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 What about "glazing" the bores??, which I believe happens if you use TOO good a oil for bedding-in! Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 SJWB - I was only offering an opinion based on what I had been told (which I did say was only from being told, not claiming it to be gospel), no need for the flaming mate! For the record, I believe some manufacturers do use different oils in the first cycle of an engine, Honda for example evidently (so I have been told) use a different oil in the Civic Type R engine for the first 10k miles. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Martin, yup, thats what I was trying to say when I mentioned about the bedding in of the piston rings, in that if the oil is too good, there is so little friction between the bore and the ring that it basically polishes the surfaces and doesnt create a good seal. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Chris, I agree that for the first 500miles a mineral oil should be used, then changed along with filter & gearbox oil. Then the decent oil (in my case Redline 10w-40 & MTL) introduced, building the revs up slowly from 4000rpm @ 500miles to redline 1000miles onwards!! yee-haa 😬 One thing that was NOT pointed out was the running-in procedure for the cams, which I since learned that when new cams are brought they should be run STRAIGHT away for 2000rpm for 20minutes to "harden". My question, should you not do this when first starting up?? no mention in the manual (what a suprise 🙆🏻) Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I e-mailed the very helpful and knowledgable Gavin from Redline asking him his opinion on using "running-in" oil for newly built tuned engines? This is what he said: Hi Chris, You are absolutely correct - never run an engine in on a synthetic oil. All good oils - the best mineral as well - have such good anti-wear additives that they will not allow the piston rings to bed in.This gives the effect of bore glazing - lack of compression and oil burning. Chris Edited by - chrisg on 7 Dec 2002 01:15:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I was told that my 1.6SS (New Aug last year) was to be run in for 500 miles then have the oil changed for Fully Synth. This was by Caterham. Can't see much has changed really except the badges on the cam covers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwb Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Couple of points here. Years ago manufacturers produced machined finishes the equal of today. Whether (sic) engine specilaists did is questionable. In fact I would go as far as to say categorically not 😳. I'll say it again. If this so called running in procedure is so critical why oh why do manufacturers make no mention of special oils 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 Irrespective of oil used, chrome faced top, or compression rings, will be difficult to bed-in (let's use the correct term) so the ring manufacturers tend to use a coating on the ring which is for want of a better word abrasive. In the first few minutes of the engine's life the rings actually wear very rapidly to present complete radial contact with the bore. Remeber, bore finish is not required to be smooth, it must retain oil to lubricate the rings and piston. Glazing bores is nothing whatever to do with the type of oil used; it is a function of how an engine is used or designed. Years ago, Kawasaki had a problem on the Z1000J with oil consumption. It was traced to glazed bores, caused by a combination of riders pussyfooting and an incompatible bore finish and ring profile. The cure 🤔 Strip the motor, glaze-bust the bores, rebuild take it out and thrash the tits off it. So, if I appear peeved it's because the "I was only repeating what I had been told" becomes urban legend and ultimately fact. I wonder how Porsche engine ever run in when they OE use synthetic oil. Perhaps Redline could help them develop power units! Whether anyone takes any notice is up to them, but I can assure you that my intentions are entirely altrusitic . Steve B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 So Steve, to my comment : I was told that my 1.6SS (New Aug last year) was to be run in for 500 miles then have the oil changed for Fully Synth. This was by Caterham. Should I not have followed their advise, and consequently may have had an issue with warranty claims etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyR Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 The Caterham build manual and the owners guide mention nothing about running in using mineral oil. TonyR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Agreed, but one of the reasons I was given for the 500 mile service was to change the oil after 'the running in period' In the owners hand book, you will note the only items to be replaced at the 500 service ar ethe oil filter & Engine oil. why is this? You can see this information here Regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyR Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I built my Superlight in July and used Comma SynerG from day one changed the oil at 500 miles, although this did seem a waste of expensive oil. Caterham need to revise ALL their information regarding fluids. I never got an exact answer regarding the gear oil. TonyR Edited by - tonyr on 7 Dec 2002 23:42:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Did you want any of the comma on the BB I'm orgainising? Check Blatchat and leave a message there if you want some ordering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyR Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I'm a bit out of the way to collect(nr Grantham) although I get over to Stockport every week. TonyR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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