O/T electric window regulator cables and nipples

[Paul Deslandes]

My wife's Freelander electric window regulators occasionally snap the operating cables after they've gone rusty. They're fairly easy to remove and not too horrendous a price to replace with new, provided I don't buy from a Landrover dealer. However, they are easy to dismantle and I've managed to get them going again on a couple of occasions, using new wires from Venhill. The problem is that I cannot get the nipples to stay on the cable and eventually they pull out and fail. I've tried crimping, soldering in various ways including splaying the strands but they always let go in the end. Has anyone done this successfully?

 

I've tried leaded and lead free solder including some stuff with silver in it, hoping it might be a bit harder. There is a fair amount of tension on the wire when the regulator is operating, much more than say on a throttle cable, so they're just being pulled out.

 

Any experience/ideas?

 

 

 

Edited by - Paul Deslandes on 16 Aug 2013 15:10:11

[Bob L]

Sorry, no idea what this looks like or the imposed space restrictions but instead of the nipple, could an electrical screw connector (there must be a proper name for these) hold better?

 

Otherwise my wife’s baked pasta sticks anything to Pyrex 😬

 

[Paul Deslandes]

Thanks, I tried the brass connector blocks out of a 'chocolate block' strip and both screwed tight and soldered but it still pulled out. I'm wondering if the regulator's long-term wear is such that there's too much friction and that's why the repaired cables don't last. At about £50 for a replacement life's getting a bit short to muck around with them TBH but it would be nice to know if anyone has succeeded in fixing one of these things.

[Jonathan Kay]

What's on the other end... could you use a bike or motorbike cable with a prefitted nipple?

 

Jonathan

[Paul Deslandes]

unfortunately not, there's a nipple on either end and the lengths are very precise. The nipples are also quite small to fit into their allocated slots.

 

It would be quite interesting (if a little pointless) to make up a variety of cables with different fixing methods and put them onto a tensometer to measure the tensile strengths.

 

I've just ordered a replacement regulator for the latest failure for about 30% of the price from Landrover which, hopefully, will last for a while 😬

[tbird]

At a guess soldering will fail because the cable is probably steel so not easily soldered ( I would argue not solderable (may be invented word) at all), would you be able to braze the cable to nipple.

 

Tim

[Paul Deslandes]

Its certainly possible to solder to steel and that's how Venhill secure their nipples to throttle and brake cables. I suspect that it may need the right flux to get a really good bond though. Venhill told me that standard multi-core solder should be strong enough, but it isn't.

 

I read a piece the other day that showed how to solder to aluminium, which I'd previously considered almost impossible. The trick is to use a high wattage iron, enough to keep the work piece at a sufficiently high temperature, and to form a large blob of solder on the surface of the ali. Then, using either the soldering iron bit or another sharp implement, scratch away at the ali surface under the solder. This way the ali is cleaned and doesn't immediately oxidise as it's shielded by the solder. It then fuses in the normal way. Obviously its worth making sure the ali is as clean as possible before starting. I've tried it and it works a treat.

[tbird]

when you are trying to solder wire to nipple do you tin both items separately then, as you mentioned earlier, splay the wires slightly, you could also flatten each wire slightly , then try using a solder bucket to finish the process, much easier to keep the temp up doing it this way.

 

Tim

[Jonathan Kay]

Motorike cable clamps, or smaller versions from the HPV world?

 

Jonathan

 

Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 16 Aug 2013 21:01:03

[Paul Deslandes]

yes I tried tinning the strands but I think the strain on the joint is just too great. The nipples have to be about 5mm in dia.

TBH I've given up now and will wait for the new regulator to arrive in the post.

Thanks for all the suggestions though, much appreciated

[skeetsy]

From my apprentice days (a long time ago now) I was told that if you wanted to solder steel to steel (or indeed to anything) then you needed to use an appropriate flux, a hard solder (commonly known as silver solder) and a flame.

 

the reason being that you cannot get the steel hot enough with an iron for the chemical reaction to take place between the solder and the metal (it's this that forms the bond) and if you tried to use a soft solder (like standard multi core electrical solder) then if the steel was hot enough the solder would boil away, or if the solder was the right temperature it wouldn't stick to the steel because the steel was too cold.

 

All the best

 

Richard

 

Edited by - skeetsy on 16 Aug 2013 23:55:08

[Paul Deslandes]

Thanks Richard, that's very interesting. It forms some sort of bond but, clearly, not a strong enough one. The solder wets the surface ok. We need a metallergist o tell us what's going on. The OE cables appear to use solder to fix the nipples but it must be a different alloy. I didn't try a flame as I thought it would weaken the cable.