boughtoneatlast Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 So am I alone in this one???? After several cooling level problems, I am now on another Head gasket!!!....; so who else has experienced failures in the head area !! and found the gaskets not holding up. My head has been reworked and whilst not seeing any power or running problems – I have still lost water!! There was a small jet of water escaping from no3 cylinder. Is this a contiuous problem experienced by others? and what is the best gasket to fit – MG standard parts or alternative?? My car is a 1.6k SS running at approx. 170 bhp having had several upgrades, yet I see other cars in a higher state of tune not suffering the same problems...... or are they just regularly changing gaskets. Gary Edited by - boughtoneatlast on 25 Nov 2002 13:09:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 the gaskets can fail for a variety of reasons. its normally a symptom rather than a cause (I'm on my 3rd BTW). If they're going regularly then the bad news is that it may be a warped or porous head and will need skimming and/or sealing. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boughtoneatlast Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Hoopy, I have had a new head as my last was porous!!!, I am somewhat concerned as I agree with your point about symptom rather than cause!! There appears to be nothing wrong have had head checked out for straightness and pourosity and all is ok. And the gasket that came off seemed to have nothing wrong! How many miles have you managed per gasket!>?? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 is that a new meaning for MPG ?????? *biggrin* *biggrin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 have you had the head pressure tested 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boughtoneatlast Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 It feels like a new MPG!!!! I have had the head pressure tested and all was fine. I am wondering now if the block might be at fault. Mind you the new gasket is fitted so I will try it out and see where we go from there, if it holds together then alls well if not I guess I might have to look deeper, how can you tell if there is a fault with the block and is it likely?? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I may as usuall be talking out a my rear orifice BUT, You may be getting localised boiling in the cylinder head which is understandable if your compression is up,and if so the effect will be to put the gasket under extreme pressure. Two things to try when you have it in bits [ and by the way the new MG/Rover Gaskets are every bit as good, in my opinion as the Mike Satur(spelling?) ones] 1 completly flush the waterways, both block and head [by the by is your coolant normally a clear green colour] 2 Refill with Rover 4 yr summer coolant, to which you can add a bottle of Redlines finest Water Wetter. The 4 yr will minimise corrosion and sediment build up and the W.W. will aid the heat transfer from head/block to water and from water to radiator surface. Works for me Never failed head gasket 1.8 was 1.6 heavily modded DVA K. *wink* jj N.I. L7C AO. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 If you have had the head checked in every way , and the results were OK . Then the problem may be that the liners are protruding at different heights ? . The k works by clamping the sandwiches of the head to the bock and midly compressing the liners against the head gasket - the gasket even has crush stops on it to ensure the compression is not exceeded . I would check that the liners are protruding equally above the block by 6thou , but most importantly that the protrusion is at least 6 thou and consistent . if they are not then picture the straight head being torqued equally but one or some of the liners have different gaps or compression forces upon them ?? , this will then provide a weak spot ...... and the appearence of a reapeated blown gasket . Are you getting simply water loss or , water in oil or , oil in water ????? Its a buggar - but dont let it get you down !!! dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Oh one other thing - I think the Sature head gaskets are better than the OE rover as the rubber seals around all the oil / water ways are not only glued to the gasket face but also penetrate or cross link the gasket on both top and bottom faces adding extra strength on the Sature . Hold it up to the light and you can see all the little holes . Both gaskets now have the improved high pressure oil feed on Number 1 cylinder to bleed off pressure . The sature is available from DVA . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 The Rover ones improved recently and are as good as the Mike Satur ones now I think... HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Hoopy, no. Dave has explained that in one area the Rover gaskets are improved and in another area they are not. I am a bit confused by the description of the problem. Gary describes a "small jet of water escaping from no.3 cylinder." This is not an accurate description. The water is not inside the cylinder. The water jacket sealing may spring a leak alongside cylinder no. 3. The compression ring may be failing, causing water ingress to cylinder no. 3. Which one is it? If it is the water jacket, then the mating surfaces (block deck and head) or liner protrusion are at fault. If it is the compression ring, then the head may be damaged and no. 3 cylinder is the prime site for a cavitation erosion failure or for the head to soften if there have been cooling problems. It only takes a very small pit in the wrong place to compromise the compression ring sealing. So, which one is it> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 ah - I thought I saw someone claiming they were both as good now - as the new rover ones had both improvements. My mistake. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 I reckon Rover have fixed a real problem and Satur have fixed a real problem and a best practice issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben C Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I have recently got a 7 When I was talking to the guy who does my repairs about buying one, he said he had fitted many head gaskets on the K series in Rover & Lotus cars. He had spoken to someone at a Rover dealership and he recomended changing the gasket on a regular basis and also the head bolts which are very long and could stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 they're designed to stretch, that's why you tighten them by x turns rather than to x ft lbs. after a couple of uses they stretch out of tolerance though and must be replaced. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boughtoneatlast Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Well just to knock this one on its head!!!!!!! It has turned out to be a pin pick in the head, no 1 cyl. the water way near the inlet valve was letting water into the cylynder and burning away in use!!!! So this time it was not a head gasket!!!!! Thanks to all the posts, I am learning more about my car all the time, I am hoping next year to use it a lot more and to gain some more track day experience on its ability..... Gary 😬 😬 😬 *biggrin* Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Land Rover have just diagnosed a blown head gasket on my Freelander (1800K) they don't seem suprised by it, "No problem Guv, it'll be a warrenty job". I wonder if they will look any further than the gasket or if I'm in for a run of problems? Paul M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Boughtone.. that waterway is vestigal and can be blocked with a piece of ally bar, I do this on all the heads I rework. That should save the head from the great scrap-bin in the sky, its a 5 min operation to do it and I have the right sized bar in the correct material here, you only need 4 x 40mm sections of it. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Boughtone.. that waterway is vestigal and can be blocked with a piece of ally bar, I do this on all the heads I rework. That should save the head from the great scrap-bin in the sky, its a 5 min operation to do it and I have the right sized bar in the correct material here, you only need 4 x 40mm sections of it. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boughtoneatlast Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Thjanks oilyhands Head has been away and has had the treatment!!!!... is this a weakness?, my car is fairly tuned with a standard head big valved and ported running throttle bodies, In your opinion do you think its likely to go again? Regards Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 When K16 heads are ported it is usual to break into that waterway when reshaping the inlet bifurcation correctly. The waterway is often biased to one side or other and usually breaks through only on one side, if you have ported and *not* broken through then you havent done the porting properly or the metal at that point is now baco-foil. Once the waterway drilling has been cleaned and the bar inserted with Devcon or JB Weld then it should remain watertight, provided the bar was an interference fit in the drilling and was made of aluminium for the correct grade. As a matter of course I always block this waterway first before beginning the porting, instructions on how to do this are on my K-engine page. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Why isn't there a steel headgasket available for the K engine ? they are for most diesels and are stronger and more important give better heat transfer between block and head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 There is a multi-layer steel gasket available, but the unusual construction of the K doesn't lend itself to a solid steel gasket because it doesn't have a uniform flat sealing surface on the block and head. The liners are designed to protrude from the block and the gasket has steel fire rings to seal twixt liner top and head with the remaining partitioning of oil and water courses made by a rubber sealing ring suspended on a thin steel biscuit. A solid or multi layer steel gasket is much less forgiving of variances in liner heights then the current design. A diesel usually has a flat clamping surface on head and block. Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 7 Dec 2002 00:46:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I had the first prototype K-series steel head gasket from Raceline to test for them. It leaked from all round the block because of liner protrusion issues and I reverted to running with a standard gasket - no problems at 250bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 It surely must be possible to machine the liners so that they are flush with the cil. block. I have a 2.4 Vm diesel in my Range, bought with a engine witch had run without oil, the block needed machining because one of the 4 cil.heads (no 2) made a mark on the block, because of this the wet liners also need machining in order to get them flush with the block. So this must be possible to do on a K series. About the water leaks, i always use sealant to cope with this on a engine with wet liners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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