R400 - SLR's/Roller's - MBE mapping

[NoLimits]

Just a note for anyone with one of the R400 set ups running on MBE system.

 

(I know OAP and Billy who along with myself were the first SLR's with this spec.)

 

The 3 of us had the MBE system with the original Minister mapping on board. Great!! (Not sarcasticly)

 

But since my car was at Caterham in September i had the R400 map put onto my car since it was "better" and had more bhp?

 

It ran like a dog!

 

The details of this can be found on a previous posting.

 

Anyway to cut a long tale short with the supperb help from Minister and none from Caterham i have now had the original map (give or take) back on the MBE.

 

A dry day at last on Sunday and went out to give it some welly 😬

 

Hey Hey back to the great car i once had. Wild and wicked.

 

The crux of the matter is that you guys with R400's may have a car that can pass SVA but you are missing out on so much.

 

And the map leaves much to be desired. The engine builders were not very impressed. I was not given details but i very much suspect they made a few telephone calls. In fact i was not told anything and have only sumised things by what and more importantly what was not said.

 

Anyway get yourselves an SLR with roller barrells map - please.

 

MY 51VEN - SLR

Give it some WELLY!

 

Edited by - NoLimits on 19 Nov 2002 21:02:32

[Gridgway]

this kind of thing makes my blood boil. it's a piece of p*ss to get sorted so why can't Caterham do it? You listening Simon??

 

Graham

[tezza]

Guessing this is to do with "bunny hopping" problem? Well not a R400, but a R300 which does seem to do this at low revs also. I noticed someone (who has R300) was going to get Caterham to come to their home and deal with the problem, could not find thread again and wondered what the outcome was?

Thanks terry

[shin.suri]

NoLimits

 

anybody in particular to talk to at Minister?

 

Shin

[NoLimits]

Yes ask for Graham. BUT PLEASE DO NOT say how the info came your way. Just say your enquiring about the MBE mapping as it is running rough and "presumably" you have had no progress with Caterham.

 

My car was not "bunny hopping" it ran rough as a dog at 3000 rpm and would cut out at 2700

 

I would just reiterate that you guys with the r400 map have not experienced the true potential or CORRECT mapping/performance for the car.

 

MY 51VEN - SLR

Give it some WELLY!

[GrahamClarke]

Interesting. I picked up my R400 on 16th Nov, so may have a newer engine map than some here were originally supplied with.

 

I test drove an R400 in September, and experienced the bunny hop issue. I've not experienced that in my car. I've been doing my best to keep the revs down whilst running in, so would have stood a good chance to uncover the problem due to the rev range I'm using. Car goes in for its 500 mile service next Monday, so I won't need to be so gentle after that and will report back whether I notice a flat spot in the power delivery.

 

Of course having not driven one with a different engine map, it's hard to know whether what I have is a good example or a bad one. I do get some pops and bangs from the exhaust on the overrun and a fellow Caterham owner friend said that he'd not heard a 7 doing that before. It's not particularly severe and is actually quite fun.

 

Graham

 

[Gridgway]

pops and bangs (and even sheets of flame) were de-rigeur on the SLR!

Graham

[Bob Corb]

Graham

 

I'll look forward to those then! 😬 Yes I must be barking mad - I'm uppgrading to a Mems 2!!! (Its cheap... )

 

Bob

[Nick W]

No Limits (R400 saviour)

 

I have just replied to post on chitchat re: R400 then I found this too- it's blatantly R400 week!

 

I can't understand why it's taken so long to get an emissions compliant and effective map for the R400. Let's face it, the R500 must be compliant and it's got +30bhp and I haven't heard any problems re: flat spots etc with its mapping. What's Caterham up to? This is the only niggle (obviously rather important) I have with this otherwise brilliant car.

 

Graham- interesting to hear yours seems to be running fine, maybe there is a new Caterham map out there. If that fails, will talk to Minister.

 

Shin- have you heard anything recently? If you talk to Minister first, let me know how you get on.

 

Cheers all

 

Nick

 

[shin.suri]

Nick

 

heard nothing..

 

But my understanding was that there were 2 maps for the R400, a "Race" map which had more power mainly at the top end and was prone to pop. The second map just poured fuel out of the exhaust but made the car a bit more driveable. I don't beleive they have resolved this.

 

I await to be corrected.

 

Shin

[V7 SLR]

As the R400 has nothing more than the engine out of the SLR, I fail to understand what's so hard in producing a map for it. My original MEMS map was SVA compliant, even though it had a flat spot at around 4000. By all accounts, this means it was still a better map than is being sent out with the MBE ECUs.

 

I'll let you know in the new year whether it is possible to have a map which both serves the power and MoT gods. It'll be for a different ECU again, but it will prove the point.

 

Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours

 

[GrahamClarke]

>The second map just poured fuel out of the exhaust but made the car a bit more driveable.

 

Which makes me wonder. Although fuel consumption is hardly my 1st priority, poor range on a tank of fuel certainly is, as I want to run super unleaded all the time and it's often hard to find garages stocking this.

 

Given that I'm driving below 5KRPM during run in, I'm still getting less than 20mpg. That's pretty atrocious, considering my 911 Turbo with a 3.6l engine manages 26mpg average, including some pretty hard driving.

 

How does < 20mpg compare to other people's experiences? Given the small capacity of the engine this seems very thirsty. I had originally put this down to being a race tuned engine, but Shin's comments now make me wonder otherwise.

 

Graham

 

[martinwhitcher]

Get a Emerald 😬 😬 😬

 

Martin

 

MW 51 CAT

[V7 SLR]

My MEMS VHPD engine gave me about 28mpg, and although I now have more power with the M3DK, it appears to return the same economy/range.

 

Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours

 

[GrahamClarke]

OK, so what's the process of installing an Emerald? Do you just swap the two over, or do they actually map it to individual engines? Cost? Anyone else got one on an R400? Who do I speak to about them?

 

Graham

(Questions 'R' Us)

[V7 SLR]

The unit including the PC cable and software is "about" £600. That includes VAT which is why I can't be sure about price.

 

Installation on an EU2 engine was easy when it came with a MEMS as it was plug compatible, but now you've got an MBE ECU this won't be so easy. I suggest you go to a scrapyard and rip out the engine loom from a MEMS-equipped Rover car. This should be fairly easy, although you may need to unbolt the alternator high-current cable from one side of the engine (the same side that serves as the "front" on a Caterham).

 

For a decent explanation, I'd talk to Dave Andrews. He may be able to help you to source parts too. Certainly he's the one to source the M3DK from. Check out DVAPower.

 

Although there are very many maps available (I can give you my last 4 to play with), you'll only ever get a 100% good match with personalised engine mapping. If you start with one of the known maps though, it'll need less than 4 hours of personalisation, which works out less than £200 at Emerald.

 

It'll invalidate your warranty with Caterham though. Best wait until the car's over 1 year old.

 

To be more specific about range WRT fuel economy.. I get 200 miles between fill-ups, although I have got just under 230 miles once. Trouble is, I don't trust the Caterham fuel gauge. I'm waiting until Spa produce a more accurate one. [pause for a sigh owing to the expected long wait]

 

Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours

 

[Fred]

As it is swindon racing that is doing the map for the R400. what are their Qualifications ect.

 

 

[Gridgway]

I thought Minister would be doing the map. Does this mean there are no R400 owners running out there who are happy with their engine performance?? How bizaare!

 

Re consumption, my R500 did about 16mpg on the road cruising at 80mph and much less on track. I struggled to get 100miles between petrol stations!!!!

 

The R500 map was ok not brilliant, there was one that allowed it to get through SVA. It generally had a flat spot in the mid-range and was not brilliant on part throttle. However it did drive perfectly ok on the road and was wild when wellying! There's no reason I can think of that would mean the R400 would be harder to map.

 

Graham

[Lawrence_Z]

Fred

 

You said Nathan had sorted your car OK

 

Is it STILL too rich?

 

Lawrence

[Fred]

Hello Lawrence,

As you know, my car failed the SVA Test on the emissions. I contacted Caterham and within two days, they actually flew Nathan up to solve the problem. This I was very impressed with.

Nathan spent the day with me at my garage and we re-mapped another ecu I went back to the

SVA Test Centre in Glasgow the next day and it passed with flying colours. I still have this map on the car which I still have not driven on the road, but it certainly sounds and ticks over very nicely. Nathan explained to me that the problem they are having with the map is trying to get a map that is SVA friendly but without reducing any of the power and bhp. At this moment in time my car seems fine. I am not registering the car until after the year.

Nathan is still working with Swindon Racing to try and get the map totally suitable for all in question. When that will be, I don't know. I suppose its ok for me as I dont need my car until after the year. I do find it strange why they are doing it with Swindon and not Ministers.

 

 

[Lawrence_Z]

Swindon used to supply the racing engines for the Caterham Vauxhall Challenge They are a decent sized company and have expertise in various fields including engine mapping and development.

They build racing engines.

 

Minister are a much smaller outfit, whose expertise has been gained in Formula Ford and now Caterham K's. They have a refined and meticulous attention to detail in the rebuilding of engines. The do not map engines, but do build engines to suit maps.

They build engines that are raced

 

HTH

and of course just IMHO

Lawrence

[Fred]

Obviously swindon have the contract for the ecu and the mapping i't may be them that are messing

caterham about .and we have to suffer .

what if we sent email to swindon and asked why they where being so incompetent at solving a relatively simple procedure. 😬

 

 

 

Edited by - fred on 4 Dec 2002 23:53:51

[Lawrence_Z]

Fred

MBE made your ecu

 

if everything in life was easy, anybody could do it

 

I think you'll find Swindon are providing an in depth analysis and implementation of current emmision control compliance whilst striving to obtain maximum performance benefits for you.

.

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.

.

.

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or they might just be having a laugh

 

Lawrence

[Fred]

TO BE CONTINUED AT A MORE SUITABLE TIME GOOD NIGHT 😬

 

 

[NoLimits]

Guys.

 

The MBE is just as good as the Emerald if not better. Just ask the big race teams.

 

The only problem with it is its seemingly poor lack of "user friendly interface" (did i really write this).

 

Its Ministers engine and Map i have. You guys with the R400 map have half the car. The full original "race" map will blow you away. It drinks fuel. 150m to the tank. It pops and shoots flame at any possible chance. You can learn to time this as you pass people particularly at night - scares the **** out of them.

 

It may not be as efficient as yours but it goes like hell.

 

Swindon are a main user of MBE.

 

A company called SBD (Stuart) based in London is the main distributer and is who MBE reffer you to if you contact them. Stuart has offered to make me a slave box to connect the lap top to and hence have access to the 3D mapping.

 

He will create a map for us also. His main roll seems to be flying of around various parts of Europe to tune race cars for MBE including Swindon etc. A very likeable chap.

 

He has though through his own admission not had much experience with K's. He seems to think that this is not a problem. Tune one and you have tuned them all.

 

I have enquired with Minister if they would allow us access to the pin code of the map so as to allow SBD to concentrate on the fine tunning of the map. ie 8 hours fine tunning. However and i feel understandably Minister wish to protect both their product (their map) amd their reputation (their engine going bang if someone gets it wrong).

 

So I (we) would have to start at the begining. with no map. Once the map has been created there should bee no reason to change it. Unless we alter the spec of the engine.

 

Caterham's R400 map as of September 15th was "poor". Ministers goes like stink.

 

 

 

MY 51VEN - SLR

Give it some WELLY!