Caterham Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 My banner battery has died so I bought one of these... Battery I made an assumption, stupidly as it turns out, that there was a standard for the terminal location. I had also heard it was a direct replacement only needing a block of wood or similar to pad out the battery tray and bracket. Battery turned up today. Removed the old one and dropped the new one in no problem connected it up to immediately discover that the terminals are the opposite way round. Obviously Immediately disconnected it as things began to get warm. It was only connected for about 20 to 30 seconds (long enough!!!). I then went through the pain or working out how to get the cables rerouted to go to the other side. I couldn’t turn the battery round as the main cables would never have reached. Got the whole lot connected up to find that there was now zero volts. Put the battery on a charger for about an hour but nothing registering. I did get the car started using my jump starting pack. I have also now managed to get the battery out the car and on my optimate on desulfation mode. Do you think the battery is knackered? Will I have caused any other issues connecting it briefly the wrong way? What should I do now? Promise of decent weather coming up and no Seven!!! Being a chartered electrical engineer I should have paid more attention. Especially when it comes to electrics. Clearly being too complacent!!! Edited by - Caterham Kid on 10 Apr 2013 21:29:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I can't see how connecting it the wrong way round could knacker the battery. If it had knackered your ignition or immobiliser that would be understandable. What got hot? Can't see any reason it would flow more current in reverse than in normal setup, and it should be good for 500-odd amps anyway. Then again, don't listen to me. Typing this is painful due the burn sustained half an hour ago when attempting to refit my FIA switch. Really should have disconnected the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Glad I am not the only one not thinking clearly this evening! Nothing got hot only warm. I noticed the main leads connecting to the battery getting warm and then I noticed. I immediately undid the bolts on the terminal and disconnected the leads. I would expect fuses to blow before the ignition or immobiliser getting knackered. It seems to me that the battery has heavily discharged. I am hoping that the Optimate will sort it out but I dont know whether I am wasting my time. Off to check what the Optimate is doing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 As the battery is only half the thickness of the Banner, why is it so difficult to connect the cables once it is turned through 180 degrees with the terminals on the right sides ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 When you say things got warm, exactly what got warm. excuse possibly idiot question but, as its brand new, has battery any electrolyte, what voltage do you get across the terminals Cannot think of anything that can knacker a battery that quickly that doesn't involve a lot of smoke getting loose, as above electronics may get damaged but connecting a battery backwards shouldn't damage battery, ah sorry just read advert, sealed lead acid so it has electrolyte doh Tim Edited by - tbird on 10 Apr 2013 21:53:32 Edited by - tbird on 10 Apr 2013 22:00:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As the battery is only half the thickness of the Banner, why is it so difficult to connect the cables once it is turned through 180 degrees with the terminals on the right sides ? Because the main black and red leads will only reach as far as the front edge of the battery but I can switch them over. I had to reroute a couple of other cables and that was much easier. I only noticed the main red and black leads getting warm but there was possibly more. As soon as I noticed and realised my mistake I concentrated on disconnecting the battery. Before I started I had about 13.8 volts across the battery. Now 0 volts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Hmm, 0v with battery disconnected is not good, not sure I would be very optimistic, but still surprised its taken out all the cells may well have also taken out diode pack in alternator, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative bluenose Posted April 10, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted April 10, 2013 Pete If the battery is reading 0 volts then I would say it is knackered. Try returning it as faulty to the supplier. Did you say you have restarted the car since this episode? If so then everything should be ok? I would have thought the immobiliser may have been cooked but if you have started it then no worries. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Try returning it as faulty to the supplier *nono* *nono* 😔 Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative bluenose Posted April 10, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted April 10, 2013 It's a fair cop I retract that statement, very dishonest. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 😬 Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Try returning it as faulty to the supplier Have to admit that did briefly cross my mind but I quickly realised that is not the right thing to do!!! Might have to order aanother one though. If I could just go to Halfords and get a battery I would. Optimate is still in desulphation mode.Apparently the fact that is is 0 volts is not necessarliy terminal. Dont really fancy leaving it unattended so will probably disconnect it later before I go to bed. Seems like my 20 minute job is going to turn in to a real hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well after 2 hours on desulphation mode (maximum to recover heavily discharged battery) the optimate switched off and the battery is still 0 volts... So I guess it's f***** then!!! Brand new to dead before it had a chance at a decent life in my Seven! I suppose I better order another one. I think the only thing that remains uncertain is whether the alternator is still working. I should be able to test that if I can use the old battery and get it started. Some 20 minute job this turned out to be! *cry* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 So if it's reverse connected, would it short to earth through the diode pack and alternator? Did it create rather large sparks when you connected and disconnected it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Could do, if polarity reversed it would just see the diodes as a short cct, across battery, some cars have a fuseable link in series with battery, but I doubt that would blow fast enough to save diodes, think they were about 80amp, http://www.cdxetextbook.com/images/rectification_01.jpg Tim Edited by - tbird on 11 Apr 2013 01:01:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Just a thought, and a long shot, but are you sure whatever you're using to measure the voltage with is working OK? May be worth trying on a known battery before you buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 Did it create rather large sparks when you connected and disconnected it? It didn't notice any when I connected it but it did spark when I disconnected. Just a thought, and a long shot, but are you sure whatever you're using to measure the voltage with is working OK? Yes. Using a decent multimeter which has been recently checked. My main concern now is whether the alternator and rectifier/regulator is still working. Hope to be able to check that this evening or tomorrow. Not sure if there is anything else I should be worrying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 11, 2013 Member Share Posted April 11, 2013 I'm also surprised that the battery can lose that much "voltage" so quickly. You can easily check if ordinary fuses have gone when you get a new battery (or similar) in place. I don't know if your car will have those high-current fuses. And, as you say, explicitly test the alternator asap. Ditto clever electronics such as the ECU. Good luck. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 How would I check the ECU? Surely that won't have been impacted (I hope!). As I have started the car since wouldn't that mean that is ok? I would have thought that if it had shorted like that then the fuses are there to protect these sorts of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 11, 2013 Member Share Posted April 11, 2013 Yes, the starting on the jumper and running are encouraging. What I was suggesting was allowing enough time to test it all out before you need the car to be usable. If it's going to take time to get the new battery can you do any more testing in parallel with the wait? (Ordinary fuses won't necessarily protect things like semiconductors against reversed polarity.) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Kid Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have ordered another battery which I am hoping will arrive tomorrow. As I have started the car I was hoping that all was ok. Presumably if the ECU was damaged it would not start, similarly with the immobiliser etc. The only thing not checked is the alternator. While I am waiting I can check that by using my jump start pack, start the car and ensure I have 14 to 14.5V or there abouts at the terminals. The car is due a service so I am thinking of sending it in and getting it all checked. I usually do most things myself but due to lack of time and that fact that there is now stuff that needs doing and checking that I dont fancy doing myself (or am not able to do!) I thought I would send it in. Dont know who to yet! however due to various recent costs on house maintenance etc, if i have alternator and/or ECU issues, I may have to leave it until I can afford to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 11, 2013 Member Share Posted April 11, 2013 Yes, that sounds good. Test the voltage while the alternator is charging, then charging with all the lights on. Test all the electrical functions. Traditional or electronic instruments? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 11, 2013 Member Share Posted April 11, 2013 Quoting Caterham Kid: The car is due a service so I am thinking of sending it in and getting it all checked. I usually do most things myself but due to lack of time and that fact that there is now stuff that needs doing and checking that I dont fancy doing myself (or am not able to do!) I thought I would send it in. Dont know who to yet!Just tell BC where you are and you'll get the answer. Fortunately it's one of those questions where you get lots of positive recommendations, rather than the opposite. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Quoting Jonathan Kay: Just tell BC where you are and you'll get the answer. Fortunately it's one of those questions where you get lots of positive recommendations, rather than the opposite. Jonathan Caterham Kid Deity Location: Sutton, Surrey I think he's in Sutton, Surrey . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 11, 2013 Member Share Posted April 11, 2013 :-) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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