Start up problems...

[PC Pete]

So, after way too long on this, my third build, I'm close to start up day. (Standard out of the box R400 delivered last December).

Having got the front end electrics connected - headlights and indicator and horns - and connected up the rest of the electrics from engine to chassis loom, I touched the positive lead to the battery (negative lead already connected). The starter motor immediately runs, thankfully not connecting to the flywheel since I have yet to put in any oil. It just spins and gets warm to the touch.

Also I see that the speedo is sitting at 140mph permanently and the other dials have their needles pointing down at 6 o'clock.

The headlights, indicators and horns work .

 

Anyone had this problem?

 

thanks in advance for any thoughts or experiences on this.

 

Peter

[Jonathan Kay]

Is the feed from the switch to the solenoid permanently live or is the solenoid or starter connected incorrectly or is the solenoid stuck on?

 

Jonathan

 

Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 7 Apr 2013 19:11:56

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

If the fat red cable from the battery to the starter then to the solenoid is cnnected to the wrong terminal on the solenoid it will do just this !

[PC Pete]

Hi Jonathan

thanks for the quick response.

The positive battery lead goes straight to the terminal on the solenoid. Connections between the solenoid and the starter motor seem to me to be permanently made - there is a third terminal on the solenoid (positive terminal) connected by means of a solid link. There is no switch between the battery lead and the solenoid.

I guess it may be a faulty starter / solenoid component 'cos the starter does not (thankfully) engage with the flywheel. Or maybe there is not enough juice in the battery to throw the cog on the starter onto the flywheel. (If that's how it's meant to work).

I'm also beginning to wonder if there is an earth problem somewhere regarding the behavior of the dials. The car does not have a windscreen or wipers and looking at other posts on this forum there seems to be a bolt that holds on the wiper motor which is a key earthing point.

Or maybe I just don't understand how it all works!!

Peter

[PC Pete]

Hi Stationary M25 Traveller

ah - so which terminal should the battery positive lead go to? There are two terminals on the solenoid - one already has (had) a black lead on it when it was supplied and the other one had nothing connected to it. I connected the positive battery lead direct to this empty terminal along with two brown wires that came from the chassis loom terminated with ring terminals.

Thanks for your response.

Peter

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

It should go to the one that doesn't spin the starter motor ! When the 12V positive supply from the starter button or ignition switch is applied to the little spade terminal (on mine) this activates the solenoid, which connects the heavy duty 12V supply cable to the starter, thus turning it.

 

The fat red cable is also connected onto the alternator, as this charges the battery.

 

This fat red cable is permanently live.

 

Edited by - Stationary M25 Traveller on 7 Apr 2013 19:50:48

[Jonathan Kay]

Quoting PC Pete: 

ah - so which terminal should the battery positive lead go to? There are two terminals on the solenoid - one already has (had) a black lead on it when it was supplied and the other one had nothing connected to it. I connected the positive battery lead direct to this empty terminal along with two brown wires that came from the chassis loom terminated with ring terminals.

From the Assembly Guide

Connect the red lead from the starter motor to the battery. Also connect the black lead on the main vehicle loom to the starter motor on the same terminal.

NOTE

If a battery master switch is fitted, there will be two red leads; one goes to the battery, the other to the starter. The brown lead is already connected.

Connect the brown lead from the alternator to the starter.

Connect the brown/red wire (covered with black insulation) from the chassis loom to the starter solenoid.

Jonathan

[PC Pete]

Thanks Jonathan and M25 Traveller

If I wasn't dressed inappropriately, I'd get back under the car and have another look!

From memory however there are no separate solenoid and starter motor terminals - all the connections go on the solenoid terminals - 3 of them, one with a black lead attached, the next (smaller) one has a solid link to the third terminal (same size as the one the black cable is on), which is where I connected the thick red battery cable. Unless I'm missing something here.

Saw that bit in the manual Jonathan but like many parts of the manual it is vague - it doesn't say which terminal!

Thinking about this however, is it correct that the positive feed from the alternator should be connected to the same terminal (on the solenoid) as the (permanently live) battery lead? The engine 'unit' was delivered with the solenoid/starter motor already in place with some cabling already connected. Maybe the connection from the alternator to the solenoid / starter is the one that was already in place.

 

Thanks again for taking the time .....

 

Peter

 

[John Vine]

If your R400 is the same as my 2008 one, you should have:

 

1. A fat red lead from the battery positive terminal to the large starter solenoid terminal nearer to the side of the car.

 

2. A fat brown lead (covered in black heat-sleeve) from the alternator to the starter solenoid (same terminal as #1).

 

3. A thin white/red lead (described in the AG as brown/red) from the chassis loom to the other starter solenoid terminal (nearer to the engine).

 

On my car, #2 and #3 were already connected. #1 was slightly different as I have a battery master switch.

 

is it correct that the positive feed from the alternator should be connected to the same terminal (on the solenoid) as the (permanently live) battery lead?

Yes (#2 above).

 

I think you may have connected the fat red lead from the battery to the wrong solenoid terminal.

 

JV

[PC Pete]

Hi John

 

Many thanks for taking the time to respond. You are of course quite right. Got hold of a picture from Derek H at CC this morning - and that is exactly what I had done wrong.

My next problem? Having got the right wires on the right terminals I have now managed to partially strip the thread on the positive terminal of the solenoid!!! Argh!

[PC Pete]

well - got the connections to solenoid sorted and the lights heater etc seem to work ok.

However the starter doesn't want to kick in at all - no clicks, no buzz, no nothing. It's got keyless ignition and the transponder is in the car.

Will charge the battery overnight but if anyone has any thoughts I'd be grateful to hear from you.

Thanks

Peter

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Do you have to do more than have it in the car ?

[PC Pete]

I think the answer is "wave it around a bit under the dash" ! On the basis that maybe the car and the transponder need to "mate" for the first time I did just that.... and it worked ; starter kicked in with a very loud thunk!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Hurrah !!