Willwod, Hi spec or AP big brake kit?

[Scott Dabinett]

Thanks for all the advise! I am going to do Keevil on the 22nd of march to get used to the car on track then I got an invite to a kind of private track day club so I am doing Combe with them on the 24th and have already booked some tuition. Going to do brands hatch GP with the club and hopefully get some tuition then as well.

 

Will get some new disks and decent pads and change the fluid!

[Mike Biddle]

I have 280MM discs and Hi spec ultralite 4 on the front of my car and 13" wheels just fit over, so 260MM should not be a problem.

 

It's true that you should be able to lock up the fronts with the standard brakes, but that does not make them as good as bigger discs, there is another important factor here. The main benefit of having larger diameter discs is controlability, it's much easier to control braking at the limit with bigger diameter discs.

 

I fitted bigger ventilated discs to the rears because they were overheating, and a dual master cylinder system with balance bar to allow for front/rear adjustment.

 

An LSD will transform the car, and is an excellent value upgrade.

 

 

[rj]

Quoting Pendennis: 

Personally, if you can afford it I cannot see any argument for not having the best brakes available.

Ian

 

Weight is one reason not to have the big vented discs. It's even unsprung rotating mass. Couldn't be worse...

 

If I had the choice I think I'd run the uprated front callipers with a solid (thinner than the vented of course) disc.

[Pendennis]

The reason why I would recommend vented front discs over solid is because I have actually seen solid discs collapse during race meetings, so we don't see solid front discs now on powerful racing 7's anymore. I appreciate this is powerful 7's not 130bhp Roadsports etc..

 

For the record I had a solid rear disc disintegrate on my SLR during a trackday few years back.

But would like to add, I removed the uprated vented rear disc AP kit and converting back to solid disc uprated AP type kit as I personally believe they are OTT on the rear of my Caterham, it also saved some weight 😬

 

Ian

[rj]

Ian,

 

That'll be because you're too much on the brakes

 

 

[Pendennis]

ha ha 😬

 

It's difficult to generalise isn't it it's good we share our experiences, to be fair Lydden is a place where I have done much track time and seen many brakes issues, it's incredibly hard on our cars that place

[AMMO]

I swopped my standard calipers for an early Hi Spec kit with 250mm solid discs some years ago. Mainly to save weight. If I remember correctly I saved four kilos. They brakes are OK for road use but I never really liked the EBC Green Stuff brake pads fitted. I changed the pads for Pagid Blue at the front and fitted new standard road pads at the back. Seems to work OK on the road but on track the brakes can go off a little bit after a while.

 

I kept the standard master cylinder and changed the leverage ratio at the pedal. I like the pedal slightly long so I can apply just the right amount of pressure. Might not be to everyone's liking.

 

When we raced motorcycles we were sponsored by Brembo. We used a billet caliper and found that the brakes would fade after a while. Reverting back to a Brembo road caliper that was cast, bigger and heavier worked better as the heat was dissipated better. Later we were sponsored by a company called PFM that made brake calipers and discs. Their brakes were fantastic.We used them in conjunction with bake pads from Performance Friction and Castrol SRF brake fluid.

 

PFM also have brake testing equipment. They have tested a lot of calipers and told me that amongst the best for rigidity are Alcon. If I was doing it all over again and they were still available I would be looking to get Alcons to go on the standard discs with Pagid or Performance Friction pads and SRF fluid. Alternatively the AP racing kit, although for my own use I would question the necessity of a vented disc. I do believe that the caliper has to have more bulk than the one I am currently using. Both for stiffness and heat dissipation.

 

As I hardly use the brakes on the road I will stick with what I have got. People that have followed me on the road have told me that my brake lights don't work but in reality I like to keep up a momentum and go through bends at the right speed without braking. The thing I like about the Pagids is the initial bite from cold. When you do need to brake It is nice to know there will be something there. Some of the racing pads don't stop you until they are hot. I never seem to get my brakes that hot unless I am on the track.

 

From memory the standard calipers were OK. I only changed them because they were so heavy.

 

Edited to add that brakes are a very personal thing. What works for one person may not for another. One of the problems we had when I was spannering in 24 Hour Endurance was that we had three riders and that the bike had to be set up so it would work for all three. When I did a year with Rizla Suzuki the two riders had a bike each. Both braking systems were totally different with different master cylinder and pads. A bit of experimentation is required to end up with what works best for each individual.

 

Edited by - AMMO on 8 Feb 2013 07:06:34

[myothercarsa2cv]

I'm beginning to think your articles shouldn't be limited to engines, AMMO! Do love these stories

[Jochen]

[Guy Lowe]

Excellent (old) thread 

A lot of good unbiased advice, very informative and it's saved me about £500 which I will use to get my car set up properly