Ted_7 Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 That's it ! It was too good to be true ! It has to happen ☹️ 52.000 kms with no problem at all (regarding the engine) ! My Seven have a serious problem now ! It started monday morning, I just drove my son at school and I see the water temp going to 100°c but the fan is not reacting ! I stopped the car and have a quick look at the fan fuse, no problemo, it's intact. Taking off the bonnet, checking the the radiator, it's cold. Calling for a truck to take my Seven and drive it to a Rover-MG agent not so far from my place. He starts to look at the car and quicly diagnose a water pump failure. He just called back a few minutes ago to tell me that it was'nt that. So he's still searching... I'm sick of that ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ ☹️ Se7enly, Ted_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Engine hot but rad cold? Sounds like thermostat. If the water pump had failed I doubt you'd have seen a high temp reading as the dash temp sender is in the water rail outside of the engine. To get hot water to it you'd need to pump it out of the engine. I'd check the head gasket too. Once you get a high temp problem a head gasket failure is never far away. Better to change it now before it develops into something serious. Wouldn't worry too much. K's appear easy enough to fix, even from my rather limited experience viewpoint. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted_7 Posted November 6, 2002 Author Share Posted November 6, 2002 The guy told me it's probably the head gasket (5 to 6 hours of work) but it can be worse if the toric seals are cooked too ! Anyway, he can only see that with the head engine off ! Se7enly, Ted_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Sugest you nail it down a bit more, I am not a K expert but understand the head gasket often fails due to overtheating caused by something else, e.g. thermostat, pump of drive belt etc. I am sure a K expert will be allong any minute to give an opinion on whether 5 or 6 hours is excessive. Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 head gasket 🤔 it can't be the sole cause of the rad was cold. thermostat does sound plausible... HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 If it's the head gasket there would be other signs, like mayonaise in your water header tank, and porbably in your oil too. It's a good bet to take the head off though, to ensure no further damage. The later Rover head gaskets are of a better design than the original ones too, so you are in effect "upgrading". Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 if the gasket *has* gone you need to check to see if the head is warped or not, if so it needs a skim and rebuild. However, I'm not happy blaming the head gasket when the rad is cold. Its not something silly like its lost all the coolant through a leaky/split hose is it 🤔 HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted_7 Posted November 6, 2002 Author Share Posted November 6, 2002 It seems that the water level has gone down, and the oil level has gone up ! I hope the quality of the oil I use for my car (Castrol RS 10W60) have reduced the damages to the rest of the mechanic ! Se7enly, Ted_7 Edited by - Ted_7 on 6 Nov 2002 16:33:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Hmm.... it is the head gasket. It's a known point of failure for K's with original Rover head gaskets. You may get away without a skim, but I'd say it is imperitive that the head is checked for "straightness". Everyone uses oil of such a quality nowadays that you've no advantage over anyone else. You can't buy a bad oil any more. Wouldn't have though this state of affairs went on for long, so you may be OK and no further damage will be found. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Still reckon it is the Thermostat, if it boiled then that's where the water's gone as for the oil rising, checked while cold with an Apollo fitted? overfilled last time? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 If there's water in the oil it will look like Baileys I can't see the head gasket failing so quick without you spotting something else first it may just be a slight leak at club foot causing air in system then air lock and temp up but rad cold. Your local Rover dealer may not be best help they tend to get baffled by the engine orentation and wrongly diagnose things. Be very carefull you could end up with avery big bill and not necessarily get to bottom of it. jj N.I. L7C AO. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 BEFORE YOU GUYS LET ANYBODY PULL THE HEAD GET THE GARAGE TO RUN A DIE TEST - THE RESULTS WILL EITHER ELIMINATE OR POINT TO HEAD GASKET TROUBLE. 20MINS DOES IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted_7 Posted November 7, 2002 Author Share Posted November 7, 2002 Thanks for all your advices; I'll keep you posted ! Se7enly, Ted_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 5 - 6 hours is about right for an Elise or Rover 200, in the Caterham access is much easier, I'd say you could lift, clean and assuming no damage.. replace the head gasket and refit the head in 3 hours flat, 4 at a push. Still trying to figure out what Toric seals are... Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boughtoneatlast Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Well having been there!!!.... I have experienced similar symptoms to yourself, however mine was due to a porus head initially, so loss of water meant that there was not enough to give the fan sender a reading therefore not kicking in therefore blowing gasket at the same time....... I am still not out of the woods as another fault has occured but it is being dealt with by a well known Caterham service centre so I am confident that all should come together soon........ Good luck, but careful, Rover dealers tend to have fitters - not engineers in my experience and I would not trust them to do much on my 7! Gary - 1.6KSS = 170bhp - now- but looking for more! P335VHT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Having heard that oily, and spoken to Daren, I'm now *really* annoyed about how much Ratrace charged me for a gasket replacement and skim *mad* HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Before you go into full panic mode... think about it. Did coolant boil and steam out of the header tank? No? In that case all your diagnosis is based on the temperature gauge that is known to be prone to faults. Check this first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 How far had you gone Ted 🤔 A cold radiator after a minute or so would point at the gauge being wrong and Peter being right. OTOH if you'd gone a fair few miles the rad should be warming up. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 In Northern Europe in late Autumn with low ambient temperatures the exit temperature from the radiator will be very low, even after a reasonable run. Not stone cold, but the 'hot' bit of the radiator will be confined to the top left corner. Another thing to check is that the bleed to the header tank is not blocked. When running the engine at idle, is there a visible trickle into the header tank? Is there any sign of escaped coolant? Spatters of white dusty residue where it has dried off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted_7 Posted November 7, 2002 Author Share Posted November 7, 2002 From my house to my son's school, it's about 8 kilometers. It's when I restarted the engine that I saw that the temperature was so high ! I let it cool down and go to the first garage I found on my way, it was a Renault garage. We saw there that the radiator was cold (stone cold) and the water was not circulating in the circuit. Then I make 4 kilometers more, but I cut the engine when the road was going down (so it may have been running 3 or 4 minutes at low revs). Se7enly, Ted_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Yup, I'd check out the thermostat first. In fact I'd take it out for the benefit of the first test, and run the car until it comes up to temperature, then check the radiator for heat. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Just to put my two penneth in - have you bled the cooling system 🤔 🤔 My K Series ran warm, and the fan didn't cut in - the top of the rad was cool, althought the matrix was hot. Having looking back through previous threads on K series over heating I gathered they were prone to air locks. I therefore took the opportunity to take the rad off, flush everything out, and refill with nice new anti-freeze (from Rover ). I then filled the system and ran it up to temp and removed the bleed plug on top of the rad with the engine running - loads of air came out *eek*. Once bled all was fine - temp now cooler (normal - whatever that is for a K Series with a Caterham temp gauge - just over 80deg C), and fan cuts in once it gets towards 90deg C. Now takes ages to get warm on this cool mornings. *mad* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted_7 Posted November 7, 2002 Author Share Posted November 7, 2002 Anyway, now the car is at the dealer, have to wait to know more Is it a bad idea to install a powerfull alert light (kinda Idiot Light) as a water temperature warning signal ? Because seeing that the temperature gauge is in the red area is not that evident 🤔 Se7enly, Ted_7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Many moons ago my sister had a Hillman (L)Imp. She managed to blow several head gaskets and warp many a head - all due to her failure to check oil and water. I made her a beautiful "CHECK WATER" by having a red face engraved and fitted to an old gauge, which was then wired in parallel with the ignition light. Shouldn't be a problem to do the same but have it temperature activated - I'm sure some cars have them fitted instead of temp gauges (can't recall which ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 I recently saw a TV programme on F1 casrs where they explained that they are now borrowing techniques from military aircraft. The drivers only now get warned when there's something to warn them. This is in direct contradiction to giving them all the info all the time. So, with this in mind, I have set my car up to warn me when I have low oil pressure, high oil temperature, high water temperature, low volts and if my dry sump pump belt falls off. Big f*** off LED aimed right into my retina ought to catch my attention. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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