Tyrone Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The good news was the scuttle came off quite easily the bad news can be seen above. I still don't know what happened, or why a fuse didn't blow before the wiring self destructed. The consensus in NE7's is that it will be easier to replace the loom. The question is, am I looking at an entire loom? Caterham have various main looms including Zetec, but no crossflow loom as far as I can see. Or, can I renew the gauges and switches looms only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 wow! Lucky you that the car didn't catch fire. I would check my earth connections. I don't think you can get "half looms", so either a complete or DIY. A K-series loom would do it, though you'll have plenty of spare wires (excess weight) to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It looks like some wires overheated and some didn't at all. I think there are some strong clues about what went wrong. What is the blue wire for? Did ANY fuses blow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted August 31, 2012 Leadership Team Share Posted August 31, 2012 Brian, there's not normally so many red wires in a loom so I suspect a few extras have been added in the past ...... Why not repair the damage? My K-Series car had the engine loom butchered and re-routed prior to me owning it, along with a whole load of other changes under the scuttle. After experiencing some electrical problems I decided to sort it out properly and sourced the correct colour coded wires from Pole Volt together with the o/e style connectors. I bought a good quality crimping tool from Car Builder Solutions (IIRC). There's an excellent list of the colour codes commonly used here and working with the various Caterham wiring diagrams it's possible to do a better-than-original job Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 For info, this looks like the main lighting circuit has caused the problem. It looks to be before the dip/main switch that the issue has occurred, so this may explain why these individual fuses have not blown. Its probably not too hard to remove the loom, remove and replace the damaged wiring. What is trickier is finding out why it happened in the first place. Evidence as to the cause may also have melted. Any issues with the main light switch ever?? What year is the car? Edited by - EFA on 31 Aug 2012 09:19:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybaud Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It could be God's wrath, caused by you waiting too many years before you came to visit. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Arnie, the car is from 1987, the first issue I had with the main light switch was the day it happened. I put the lights on, and either at the same time or a little while later there was smoke in the cockpit, not a lot. I pulled over straight away, whipped the bonnet off, but couldn't find anything. I couldn't switch the lights off, the switch was solid. When I pulled it out of the dash all hell broke loose. The damage to the main loom is limited and repairable, but the loom from the fuse box to the ignition and the lighting switches is FUBAR'd. Does this mean I can buy the standard switch loom from CC or will I need the old gauges loom too. I've emailed Darren at CC, but he is away until Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ouch - sorry to see this ! Hope you get it fixed soon. Maybe it was the terminals on the back of the switch shorting to the dash as you pulled it out that did more damage ? Easy to do that with the design of these switches, unless you disconnect the battery (which may not always be possible in the heat of the moment by the roadside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Cheers Ian. Did you get my Blatmail about Peltor ear defender mods? I'm after pictures of how you've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No I didn't ? When did you send it ? Will send you some info over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted August 31, 2012 Leadership Team Share Posted August 31, 2012 Quoting Tyrone: Cheers Ian. Did you get my Blatmail about Peltor ear defender mods? I'm after pictures of how you've done it. Now this sounds interesting .... I'm about to attempt to fit an Autocom headset into a Peltor! I'm thinking the Peltor Optime 1 is a good place to start. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I sent it yesterday, I think. Can you send it to work: brian.ramsey@kier.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi Stu - Started with Optime 1 - cups too shallow, speaker presses on your ear - painful after an hour ! Swapped to Optime 3 - this is the DBs Details to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I know I'm hijacking my own thread here, but I've just bought two pairs of the Peltor Optime II's from Amazon for £11 each. They are deeper than the Optime I's, more comfortable and they are green so they match the car colour! They look so nice, I don't want to butcher them when I fit the Terratrip phones and mic, so I'm sure Ian will have been his usual fastidious self when he modified his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Just sent you both some words by e.mail. Can follow up with pics if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I didn't take many pics when I did my headsets, but what I have is online here Top-tip/learning from me is to carefully protect the wire that connects the two sides very-carefully. It's so easy to tweak it or for the cushion/edge of the cans to cut into the wire. Further aside (as my pics aren't too helpful) is to epoxy the boom etc. into place - score/roughen the inside of the cans up first though. Still haven't found an effective way to stop them becoming sodden and useless (the mics) in the p*ssing rain when using an aeroscreen though! The mics survive fine (i.e. they work when dried out) but won't work when the foam etc. is drenched. Back to the loom, anyone? Edited by - Myles on 31 Aug 2012 12:49:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Tyrone, I'm not sure how the wiring is on an '87 car as I don't have a diagram. The poor design of the original loom is that the main light switch provides a high current feed to the flash switch, and the same supply drives low current feeds for the headlight relay (circuits through the dip/main switch). This means the circuit protection is useless as the fuse is rated for a very high current, though some of the wiring is rated only for relay level current. Headlamp bulbs draw much more current than a relay - 15A protected if you have the correct fuse. A relay circuit would need a very small fuse - smallest being around 2A. I think that if the switch supply wiring had shorted to the dash the fuse would have blown. What seems more likely is that the wiring has shorted through the relay control, thus putting the headlamp load through the small wires designed to control the relay, and melting everything as a result. This explains why the high current cables are intact, and the thinner cables have melted. Good (well probably not good for you) to hear that you meddling with the switch was the event which caused the failure - it is important to be able to determine cause if you don't want it to happen again. I suggest you buy a new main light switch when fixing things! The rest of it will be easy. Just cut out all the old melted wiring and replace (Vehicle Wiring Products will be able to supply same colours etc.). The damage does sound like it will be confined to the under dash area. VWP have all the bits, and here is the electrical diagram you will need. Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Member Share Posted August 31, 2012 *arrowup* *arrowup*Thans for the explanation. I was wondering why you homed in on the main light switch. Is there a simple way to convert the flash switch circuit so that it's low current, and fused appropriately, presumably with an extra relay? When you say "original loom" has it been changed? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yep just relay it so as the flash sw is only switching the relay and the feed to relay is fused. Its an easy fix as EFA states cut away all old loom tape expose wiring and replace everything burnt [inc switches etc.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 What are the odds on something similar happening with one of the other switches. Am I being unduly pessimistic by thinking of replacing the whole lot under the dash with the looms from CC. I've already bought a new main light switch and a battery cut off switch. 😬 Trying to undo the earths attached to the Powervamp with an Allen key while everything goes up in smoke is not funny. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted August 31, 2012 Leadership Team Share Posted August 31, 2012 Quoting Tyrone: What are the odds on something similar happening with one of the other switches. Am I being unduly pessimistic by thinking of replacing the whole lot under the dash with the looms from CC. Yes you're being unduly pessimistic. Unless you see it as a regular occurrence with quite a few cars that is? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Master switch for quick isolation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yeah dont be pessamistic All we have to do is get the Smoke back into the cct and everything will work again As youve found out to your cost following the Joseph Lucas theory of smoke one it escapes the ccts dead. Its an easy fix. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 When you do get all this refitted, don't forget that the cut-off switch brings an un-fused supply through a low-resistance wire (which will carry on supplying current until well after everything else has burned out) right under your dash - so careful with the screwdrivers and spanners under there - or, better still, don't mess about under the scuttle without disconnecting the battery! CC will sell you the appropriate lengths of red battery cable to get the good-news from the battery to the bms by the way, if you've not already bought them or don't plan to make your own up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Located mine in the bulkhead, so the key is inside the cockpit, but the terminals are beside the battery in the engine bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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