Joost M Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 @ Arnie, The engines Spiess used where the old VX16v engines. They never used Ecotec ones in their STW-cars. They have a lot of old VX16v (new) blocks at OPC and they don't sell them. They keep them in stock just for performance-use. In 95 they used the cavalier in 96 the vectra. @ Dave E, Dave I know it might sound strange to you but I just phoned my brother about this question. He confirmed to me that the normal STW - engines produced between 320 and 325hp @ 8500 on normal fuel direct from the pump and a cat-convertor. The specials (335hp) were with racefuel. And believe me the money that was spent on the ex works 4 cylinder 2.5lt BMW was just a fraction of the cost that was spent on the STW-engines (Millions of pounds each year). Opel (and Peugot) had in Germany every year the strongest engine of the whole pack. I will try to get some power-plots from the dyno. I also have a CCC where they discribe the engine of a Nissan BTCC car. It also had over 300HP@8500. I will try to find it for you. Edited by - Joost M on 3 Nov 2002 06:35:09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjc Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I can't help feeling a bit sorry for Peter T, he asked a simple question and has had to wade through all this which still hasn't addressed the basic issue of can you use carbs @ 280 BHP ? I think it is agreed that 280 to 300 represents the maximum or near maximum output you can get from a VX 16 valve. You are talking about a lot of mechanical modifications, intruder pistons, solid lifters, head gassing and porting, massive cams, cossie bolts, steel crank etc etc. These will make the engine rough and difficult at low revs. In order to provide sensible driving characteristics I can't think that Carbs will do an adequate job at low revs when optimised for that kind of power. You need the finesse and control of fuel management to make it all work. I don't know of anyone who runs carbs on a VX over 230 ish BHP. ?? Anyone know different ? Regards Rowland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Rowland I use carbs on my vx engine. Not saying how much power but suffice to say its a bit more than a JPE 😬 It is very torquey and drivable bottom end and round town etc. It has enough power to beat K2RUM at Brooklands so it cant be that slow! Also it weighs approx 80 kgs more than K2RUM 😳 James P17HPC The K2RUM Eater K2RUMEATER@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Peter Are you going to the veteran car run tomorrow? If so I will give you a spin to show you what carbs can do 😬 James P17HPC The K2RUM Eater K2RUMEATER@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 The outright power difference moving from carbs to injection will come from two areas, Slightly better breathing from not having a venturi or jets. Strict control of the fuelling. This probably doesn't add up to much, even in the extremes of specific power output. The real win with injection is at less than full throttle and max rpm. Which is especially significant for non-race usage. It may be possible to get 280BHP from a 2L Vx on carbs, but it's definitely possible on injection. And on injection it will start, idle and be driveable at part throttle and much less than 5000rpm. On carbs it won't. The injection engine will be faster on track because you will be able to nail the throttle in a tall gear as opposed to feathering the throttle in a short gear. I don't believe 335BHP at 8500rpm from a 4 cylinder production based 2 litre. I think we have a case of Dyno Drift. Just over 300BHP I will believe. It's the rev limit that's the killer here. Consider what power you might get from a Cosworth DFR or HB 3.5 litre V8 with no rev limit and a similar lack of budget limit. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Paul What was the spec of the engine you tried with carbs? James P17HPC The K2RUM Eater K2RUMEATER@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 James, Stop talking bollocks. Love & kisses Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Arnie Is Santa Pod still on for next year? James P17HPC The K2RUM Eater K2RUMEATER@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joost M Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 @ Paul, Quote: I don't believe 335BHP at 8500rpm from a 4 cylinder production based 2 litre. I think we have a case of Dyno Drift. Just over 300BHP I will believe. It's the rev limit that's the killer here. Consider what power you might get from a Cosworth DFR or HB 3.5 litre V8 with no rev limit and a similar lack of budget limit. If you believe it or not it is up to you. But if you talk about a Dyno Drift in a raceclass as high-end as the STW was then I think you don't know how they work in a class like this. The cars gave constant information (50 sensors) to the team. So they don't need to look at speedtraps, they can monitor the cars performance online and compare it realtime with the other cars even from other manufactures. With this they can calculate the performance of the car as they know all the other data from the windtunnel and testing. So they have always a double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Every serious race team in the world ever is coy about power. And manufacturers don't usually worry if slightly inflated figures become 'common' knowledge. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 "Every serious race team in the world ever is coy about power." I never had Fat Arnie Racing as a serious race team Paul ?? 🙆🏻 dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joost M Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 @ Paul, Quote: Every serious race team in the world ever is coy about power That is true! But not if the raceclass is dead and the engine will not be used anymore. And the information came from somebody who knows that info. Regards, Joost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Gald to see the branding is gaining recognition Dave. 😬 😬 😬 Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Well i finally got my answer!Thanks for the little debate regarding power issues, James i will take you up on a spin in your 7. Cheers. C7 PWT X-Flow all Steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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