Rampmonkey Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Evening all! One is not chipper. This evening I decided to install a 12v socket under the dash for the obligatory sat nav charging point. Easy peasy eh? According to some other posts, aye. It is. To be honest, the installation was; before i did anything rash, I hooked it up to the battery and gross checked it for correct operation before embarking on a permanent fit. All ok so far. However, upon completion of the more permanent fit (tidy wiring and all that!) I decided to have another FINAL confirmation of 'correct operation'. Oh dear. In order.... 1. Turned the isolation key, got flashy light on dash from immobiliser. (Normal) 2. Pressed immobiliser button on key fob, Flashy light goes out. (Normal) 3. Pressed dash mounted starter button 4. Muted clicking from starter motor, immobiliser flashy light comes back on. (Not normal) 5. Reset everything, isolator and all, tried again. 6. Nil. Nowt. Not a titter from the starter motor. Cue 'Parrot sketch' quotes. I've subsequently disconnected the 12v socket from the car in all respects, hopefully to re-establish some kind of electrical base line. (i.e. as it was before I got involved!) That car will not do ANYTHING at the moment. With one exception.... Under the dash next to the fuse panel, there is a black cylinder approximately 10cm long and 4cm diameter. Whenever I press the immobiliser key fob, it buzzes incessantly. I'm at a loss as to where to start! Anyone fried a 7 recently? Any ideas? The baseline car details are listed below. Many thanks for any ideas or advice! Jase 1.8 Vx Supersprint, 2000 reg. Standard analogue dash, no mods. Vecta Immobiliser - fit on initial build. Standard 12v battery - fully charged and showing as fully functional/ charged when hooked up to the trickle charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Quoting Rampmonkey: a black cylinder approximately 10cm long and 4cm diameter. Whenever I press the immobiliser key fob, it buzzes incessantly. Are you sure it belongs to the car? 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Touche! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Assume the 12V socket is fully insulated - ie no part of the connections are grounded to earth ? What has changed since you tested it across the battery ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative bluenose Posted August 15, 2012 Area Representative Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jase Sounds like an immobiliser problem although it appears from what you say that the fob is still be triggering the immobiliser to unset. Have you got the original Vecta handbook, that may give you clues to the buzzing? If you have disturbed any wires to/from the immobiliser box then this may be your problem. The Vecta may be unsetting but the wires going to the circuits it isolates could have been disconnected and hence the car will not start. If you can find the Vecta box you may be able to trace the wires, although they are probably not marked for obvious reasons. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yeah, the socket was fully isolated. It's got a 10amp fuse in line which is still intact. As far as I can establish, electrically nothing changed between first and second testing. It may be unrelated but the immobilizer has been known to 'trip off' during ignition. Trouble is, it's intermittent and infrequent and fully resets when you selected the isolator off/on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Hi nick, Yeah, I'm starting to suspect the immobiliser has gone screwy. I didn't disturb/ remove or otherwise interact with any aspect of the system while plumbing in the socket; it simply attached to the battery via two terminals. I'm going to do a full trace and voltage check of the system tomorrow morning....as for hand books or other user documents, no provided I'm afraid! A bit of google-ing coming on methinks! Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Done a bit of digging in the archives and I reckon I'm going to have a go at removing the Vecta system altogether. Anyone got one of those 'removal guides' floating about? Time for an Aircrew reset.... Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventh-heaven Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 You have checked that the battery isn't flat.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Ok, so.... I've removed the vecta immobiliser system ala the range of explanations elsewhere in this forum. Carefully analysed each splice and rejoined the wiring minus the vecta wires. Problem is..... Won't start. Dead. Not a sound. No power to anything. When I hook up the battery to my Optimate4 battery monitor it says battery discharged, yet immediately prior to turning the key it was showing fully charged. I'm clearly not electrically minded! Am I missing something obvious like a bad earth? Where to start? Everything appears good to my untrained eyes! SH - battery is giving 13.2v when tested with a meter. Help! Jase Edited by - Rampmonkey on 16 Aug 2012 09:42:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 16, 2012 Member Share Posted August 16, 2012 Quoting Rampmonkey: Won't start. Dead. Not a sound. No power to anything. SH - battery is giving 13.2v when tested with a meter.Do you really mean no power to anything, or no power to ignition or starter? Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 16 Aug 2012 09:48:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Morning Jonothan, It appears that when I go to position 2 on the ignition switch, the battery dumps. I just a moment ago went through a staged start and noted the optimate reads at each point. Just to clarify: I have an external isolate switch I have a push button start on the dash Any help? Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Sounds like a wiring error do to with position 2 on ignition switch. Is the new 12V socket wired straight across the battery, or via the switch ? If the latter, sounds like a dead short ? Would expect a fuse to pop or wires to issue smoke though. It sounds like it will be something silly, thus hopefully easy to trace ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted August 16, 2012 Member Share Posted August 16, 2012 Sounds to me like a problem with the wiring modifications you've just done in removing the immobiliser. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 I suspect you're right Jonothan. SM25T, the 12v socket has been removed for the time being so as not to complicate my already addled mind! The vecta system had an earth near the fuse panel under the dash. Would this earth need to be re-established after the system was removed? Or would it have been specifically for the immobiliser module? Jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 This is going to be where to start from problem as you have done quite a lot of wiring changes and you started from a point of things not working. OK so from your post you wired the socket directly to battery, via an inline fuse, and not via ignition, and the fuse is intact so initialy I would discount that as directly causing a poroblem, if it had shorted the fuse would blow, you cant connect it the "wrong" way round, (in terms of causing a problem at the moment) If where you were fitting socket or drilling you could have damaged or dislodged a wire than that could have been the problem or it could have been total coincidence, but unless you had a history of similar problem I don't like coincidence, Have you marked the wires on loom and old immobiliser in such a way that it can be wired back in, If it was me I would try to return to where I was prior to problem and start from there. other than that its just going to be a session with the multi meter belling out each circuit involved . Short of a plate buckling a battery cannot go instantly flat so measure voltage with it disconnected then connect terminals, measure Voltage, turn on ignition and measure voltage, they should all be pretty much the same reading, voltage should only drop when cranking, if something is a direct short across battery it will burn out or get very hot very quickly. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hi Tim, I did mark up the looms and wires to identify where things came from, so there's the option of doing a reinstallation. The issue there is the 'buzzing' from within the immobiliser module; this was entirely unprecedented and I was getting nowhere. (I strongly suspected that there was something terminally wrong within the sealed module) The battery is showing a good 13.2-13.4v throughout, so I'm not sure there are any issues with that. With respects to damaged wiring, I was very careful anyway but have subsequently done a thorough trawl for any signs of damage or chaffing; nothing evident. There has been no evidence of components getting hot or smoking at any stage (except the pillock with the tools...) I'll start with the multimeter option... jase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 OK quick and dirty checks first, with no immobiliser fitted FIA switch ON ignition off any 4 way flashers key in run position any ignition lights any fuel pump buzz Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 FIA switch on + four way hazards swx to ON = buzzing from under dash..... Key to run position = no response from anything. (optimate shows dead battery until key returned to OFF position. Then shows battery ok. 13v throughout) Edited by - Rampmonkey on 16 Aug 2012 12:38:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thought - is the buzzing the hazard switch. They do this from time to time. Work the switch a few times to clean the contacts. Press all the relays home (behind the fuses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Worth bypassing the FIA switch to eliminate it from enquiries ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 The hazard relay is doing the buzzing! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 It is loud isn't it !! So - have you stopped it by working the switch and reseating all the relays ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampmonkey Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 That would be a no. Update....FIA swx to ON. Hazard swx to ON. Buzzing stopped with jiggle to fuse panel and relay. At the instant the buzzing stopped, the optimate showed an increase in battery status. However, still no ignition or hazard lights.... Edited by - Rampmonkey on 16 Aug 2012 13:29:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Sounds like the dirty contacts in hazard switch or loose relay were causing a short, so you have fixed that. You will just have to start working through systematically checking for 12V at battery, FIA switch, ignition switch feed, then switched live terminals, etc. Still think you should try bypassing the FIA switch by connecting inlet and outlet terminals, as they can give problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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