Gasket Leak on my K-series :o(

[Dangerwheels]

Hi,

 

I had an unfortunate journey into work this morning - making the most of the beatiful weather i took the seven on my (short) 10 mile journey drive in to the office. Noticing that the engine temperature was starting to rise high, i slow to 50mph on a dual carriage way to see how the temperature was and hope get to work (was only a mile away), but then when i pulled up at a set of cross roads, steam started pouring out of the grill holes in the bonnet. Eek.

 

By this point the engine temperature was almost in the red but not quite - reading about 119.5. Normally sits at 80 but i expect it to go up to 100 when driven hard (note: not driven hard today).

 

So I pulled into a side lane immediately and turned the engine off. ONce the steam had subsided (only a few seconds) i took the bonnet off (underside had been steam-cleaned!). Coolant was spraying out of the near side of the engine - (eek again) - exhaust manifold side, from the front.

 

The car was towed back home immedately and its been sat in the garage all day. When i got in from work this evening, I took the front bodywork off the car. (Unsurprisingly) the coolant tank was empty. So i filled it up with water; once the water had worked its way down the pipes (it actually didn't take too much filling - only 1.5-2 litres of water before the reservoir tank was full), it started leaking out of the side of the engine again (same spot) under the power of gravity. Not good.

 

I've taken some photos of the guilty part of the engine- Photos can be found here

 

Main problem area:

 

You'll see a small red "tongue" sticking out which i'm guessing is the gasket? This is exactly where the water was spraying from. I can't say i've noticed it before, so can't say whether its always been sticking out like this or not. I've marked the guilty area of the engine on the images. Is this the head gasket gone? Or is this another gasket? The gasket runs under the exhaust manifold fitting.

 

Of note, there is no coolant in the oil (oil level is perfect with no water residue present on the dip stick or directly under the filler cap).

 

The car is a 1.6 K-series supersport, 2001. 35K on the clock. In the last 8/9 months its only been driven a handful of times and has spent most of its time in my garage (disgraceful i know!). In the last 3 years its done about 5 track days (so had some occasional hard fun driving) with a full oil/sump baffle foam change less than 12 months ago.

 

I''m hoping this is something i might be able to tackle myself (or as much as possible). Any online diagnosis and advise of how to tackle this would be massively appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Col

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

In the photos it looks like a large gap between head and block at that point ?? Are the bolts tight .... or broken ?

[Bricol]

I can't view the piccies (work internet), but mine did something very similar - second trip out after a long time parked, blast down dual carriageway to work and steam out the near side. I didn't have red rubber poking out, but coolant was being forced out in a jet between block and head at the front nearside.

 

On removing the head, it was obvious what had failed - the red elastomer of the gasket had always been close to the waterway edges and had failed, I guess due to age and the continued vertical differential movement between block and head around the waterways.

 

Quick check of head and block flatness and liner protrusion, and a full headset from local factors, including new head bolts, and hour of work, and it's all fine again. Admittedly mine didn't show any increase in temperature, but your's doesn't sound to have gone mega high.

 

If getting dirty isn't quite your thing, your local trusted motor mechanic will have done loads of K-series, will have a gasket set he trusts not to come back and haunt him, and for a few hundred quid will sort it.

 

Bri

[SLR No.77]

I had the same happen on our old Freelander - the rubber seal around the edge of the gasket was forced out at the front (transverse install so mid way along the water rail) and it was blowing steam out like the Flying Scotsman! Blown head gasket.

If like mine, your good fortune may be that the coolant has exited out of the side and not into the oil - any emulsified oil on the inside of the filler cap or the dip stick?

Drop the coolant and replace the head gasket with the latest type (and steel dowels), and if the oil has any sign of coolant in it swap the oil as well. I suspect if you nursed it when the problem appeared you won't have any further damage (roll on the scare mongers 😳).

 

Stu.

[TomB]

Go on, loose your head gasket cherry! Its a rite of passage for us K owners. Its not that scary and the Haynes manual is very good at working it through. Youll learn loads - Im sure if you ask on here youll find some local assistance. Its not the end of the world.

[Dangerwheels]

Thanks for the responses. To reply to the queries:

 

Stationary M25 Traveller: In the photos it looks like a large gap between head and block at that point ?? Are the bolts tight .... or broken ?

 

I'll check the gap along the length of the engine gasket this evening and see if its consistent. Certainly in my hands the engine block has never been to pieces (sump not withstanding), and i would imagine its unusual for a bolt to break when in situ? I've owned the car for 4 years now and never lost any coolant liquid out of the engine (even with the energetic driving that accompanies all seven driving 😬).

 

Bricol: On removing the head, it was obvious what had failed - the red elastomer of the gasket had always been close to the waterway edges and had failed, I guess due to age and the continued vertical differential movement between block and head around the waterways.

 

This does sound a very similar issue to the one i've just experienced - especially if you haven't seen my photos yet. I didn't realised that an elastomer was used with(as?) the gasket here - could be the likely culprit.

 

Is there a water rail through this part of the engine ? This could tie in with no fluid being present in the oil -especially if the gasket has broken outwards and not inwards.

 

sforshaw: I had the same happen on our old Freelander - the rubber seal around the edge of the gasket was forced out at the front (transverse install so mid way along the water rail) and it was blowing steam out like the Flying Scotsman! Blown head gasket.

If like mine, your good fortune may be that the coolant has exited out of the side and not into the oil - any emulsified oil on the inside of the filler cap or the dip stick?

 

Again, sounds very similar. And no emulsified oil under the filler cap or on the dip stick (thankfully!)

 

sforshaw: Drop the coolant and replace the head gasket with the latest type (and steel dowels), and if the oil has any sign of coolant in it swap the oil as well. I suspect if you nursed it when the problem appeared you won't have any further damage (roll on the scare mongers ).

 

Is this definitely the head gasket that has gone? Or is it some other gasket i've not heard of? Before i go out and buy completely the wrong set of replacement parts...

 

I think i need to buy myself a Rover K-Series haynes manual too (ebay here i come).

 

If i do end up dismantelling the engine myself to fix (I prefer this option and i don't have to rush to get it done - going to be a good learning experience mind you as i've not done this before) are there any other parts that i'll need to get spares for? Also, are there any special tools that i'll need outside of sockets, torque wrenches, and the Profanisaurus ?

 

At rebuild time, how bad/easy is it to set all the timing etc is it likely to work "out of the block", so to speak, or is this a job for a garage once the engine is back in one piece again?

[Johnty Lyons]

Get a manual before you start stripping anything. It is important to have crank pistons in correct position befor you start. Otherwise go for it get a full top end set a cam locking tool and a new timing belt and your all set.

[CageyH]

Had the same happen on my car. It's the head gasket.

The good news is that it is easily fixed in a weekend of spannering.

 

Don't forget the new through bolts.

A new cam belt tensioner is also a good idea.

[mav]

A word of warning, when you remove the old gasket, fold itin half and throw it away immediately. Under no circumstances leave it until later and then let it slip as it *WILL* slice quite happily through flesh, nerves and anything else in between.

 

Ask me how I know - go on

[gundersen]

You cut yourself on a gasket...really? 😳 😔

[mav]

Chopped with a gasket

 

Edited by - mav on 26 Jun 2012 19:21:56

[gundersen]

Ouchy 😳

[Ozzy]

 

I think he's being a bit of a drama queen. With hands like his, it was barely a scratch 😬

 

 

 

 

[Dignity]

Top Lurking BTW Dangerwheels

 

 

😬

[Bricol]

Just taken a look at your piccies - exactly the same place as mine. On the water jacket only - oil ways and combustion chambers were fine on mine.

 

Bri

 

 

[Dangerwheels]

Top Lurking BTW Dangerwheels

 

Dangerwheels... saving electrons... but attempting to make a good dent in the worlds fossil fuel resources 😬

[Dignity]

Quoting Dangerwheels: 

Top Lurking BTW Dangerwheels

 

Dangerwheels... saving electrons... but attempting to make a good dent in the worlds fossil fuel resources 😬

 

 

😬

 

Edited by - Dignity on 27 Jun 2012 21:22:46

[Dangerwheels]

 

Found a really good online document for the make-up of the K-series (non-VVC and VVC with VVC) engines - K-Series Engine Overhaul Manual

 

It has some great detailed schematics of the engine. Not sure how good the instructions are yet though (theres plenty to read!), and given how good Haynes are i am still looking to get a 1.6 K-series edition.

 

Do people still recommend Red Line Components as the best place to source seven-related parts (specifically engine components)?

[myothercarsa2cv]

I have the engine part of the Rover 25 Haynes manual on my website here - might be useful?

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

DVA Power (Dave Andrews) in Milton Keynes is a top chap when it comes to K-series bits.

[Dangerwheels]

Hi folks,

 

FIrstly, many apologies for the lack of updates with my HG change- all your input has been most helpful.

 

Progress has unfortunately been painfully slow due to a lack of time, but i've finally completed the HG replacement. Not wishing to risk warping, i took the head down to a trusted garage to have it skimmed.

 

HG changes are no-where near as painful as i expected, i'm glad i've made the effort. WIth a bit of research, a rover k series haynes manual and some additional you-tube assistance (removing and refitting a cam belt on the k), the only heart stopping moment i had was manually trying to crank the engine over once back together...unsuccessfully...before realising i had left the engine in-gear. D'oh.

 

Anyhow, with engine now back in business, I now know why the head gasket blew in the first place - the engine is overheating ☹️. DVA Dave previously mentioned to me that head gaskets don't normally blow of their own accord. How right he was. The HG was a consequence of something else (as of yet unidentified) failing in the system. So, i now have a k-series i can run for a few minutes, then once its heated up, it keeps heating up and i have to turn the engine off (before the new HG blows again).

 

Some notes:

- Have noticed this effect twice since the Head was put back together. The first time i filled up the coolant system with water only, and ran the car. The engine started to overheat. I emptied the coolant system, replaced the thermostat with a new one (thought it might be faulty, but removing the housing and trying to remove the thermostat showed an age problem - the fixings on the old thermostat housing were duff, so i had to replace the housing too). Then refilled the system with coolant. The result was unfortunately the same - engine overheating.

- whilst the engine was in bits, i modified the coolant system as per the article "Modifying the K-series coolant circuit" in the September 2012 LowFlying article (pages 12-13). This changes the flow of water out of hte expansion bottle into the open side of the thermostat housing, not the closed side (when cold).

- raised the nose of the car whilst filling up. 5.1 litres of coolant into the system.

- there are no leaks in the coolant system.

- The radiator fan has not been coming on when the engine heats up...

- but the radiator fan does work - i just bridged the fan connections and it whirred into life.

- Whilst hot, i half unscrewed the coolant tank cap - the system audibly de-pressurised.

 

I don't believe there are any air locks in the system, especially as i put in a full 5.1 litres of coolant, and have modified the system as per LF magazines recommendation.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about what i should check next?

 

My next train of thought is the the engine temperature senders - On the exhaust side there are two sensors that are screwed into the external water rail. Presumably one is the engine temperature sensor, the other i'm not sure about. I have never replaced either of these. Is this a next sensible check to do?

 

Many thanks

 

Col

 

[Tony Whitley]

The senders will just fail to tell you your engine is overheating, they won't cause it. I suspect the water pump. ISTR there's a known failure where the spindle isn't connected to the impeller.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

One is a temperature sender for the gauge, the other is for the ECU.

 

As above - water pump next.

[Dangerwheels]

Thanks chaps. I'll take the water pump off later this week (I have a couple of days off work which is somewhat handy) and see if its operational.

[ECR]

The fan works, but does the fan switch work (the item screwed into your radiator). Before you start replacing water pumps I'd run the engine and when it gets up to temperature bridge the fan as you did before. If the temperature stabilises replace the fan switch.