Area Representative dikko Posted May 21, 2012 Area Representative Share Posted May 21, 2012 Recent carb p pump plugs old electronic ignition, missing at 7,000rpm How and where should I start? I'm thinking I should take it straight away to a rolling road to track it down rather than hunt it down...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Got to be fuel/air or spark Is there a chance that the coil is failing? Do you have a known good item you can swap it with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 22, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 22, 2012 There is every chance that something is failing/breaking down... 😬...but the question is do I use a lot of time guessing or hoping to find it. I can't go and check it easily and it ain't road legal... Rolling road and a big bag of bits mebbe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnv Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 when I had the same sort of problem I decided to go straight to the rolling road .. it was a good decision, as it happened I would have ended up spending a month of sundays and a lot of money trying to track it down, purchasing a lot of unnecessary bits along the way - the RR nailed it immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Dikko, I think I've got some X-Flow bits in the garage that may help... If I do, you're welcome to try them. 😶🌫️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 How old are the HT leads? check none of them are loose first and go from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Soper Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you haven't replace the Distrubtor cap, rotor arm, plug caps (only use NGK or well known make), plug leads then change them all, the Distrubtor Doctor (google search will find him) is a good supplier of rotor arms the Lucas replacement ones are rubbish short between rivit and retaining clip, Auto Electrical Supplies are usefull and Lucas cheap coils etc, I dought if it is the coil unless its very old easy to swop over from 61? ( my misfires have been plug caps /dist caps/ rotor arms , I alway keep a spare set of everything now makes hunting the missfire easier!!) Low battery volts will cause a missfire if you have electronic ignition Brian Edited by - Brian Soper on 22 May 2012 13:11:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Worth checking for a broken valve spring. And if you run a rev limiter, it's worth disconnecting it to see if the problem goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 22, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 22, 2012 Cheers guys, fortified by johnv... no rev limiter. will check springs Rog. Brian, thanks for contacts. Silverstone was fun but short-changing due to miss lost me 10-12th... Spectators tell me it was freezing tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you would need a Bosch dizzy with side entry cap, i have one from a Fiesta MK1 free to you. But it's still on points no electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 As an alternative to lobbing parts at it, always worth hooking it up to a SUN tuner. Isculloscope traces can usually point to specific ignition problem. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 22, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 22, 2012 Thanks elie but it's all-matching set of V12 Lucas..converted that is..was bomb-proof..might be it so Sun tuner might do the trick too except it works OK but not under load... New baby next door so I have to plan garage noise well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I recently had a similar problem as the engine got hot. It was the electronic ignition (Aldon Ignitor) failing as it got hot. As the enginge got hotter the misfire got earier - started at 6k rpm then gradually moved down the rev range to 4k rpm. Rebuild at Aldon wasn't too expensive, proper advance curve now for my supersprint and it runs really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have a similar problem with mine, but the rolling road showed that it was an ECU fault that was causing the spark to break down at high revs. A ECU swap cured the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 23, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 23, 2012 Strongy! Beware! Eugene may be along at some point to explain how an Aldon unit can electronically 'fight' a Rev counter AND LOSE... He and I had one on our Sevens, they can take 2-5 years to break down..and down they went. For a good unit that may be described as Bombproof go to Bestek (ebay on line) sells out of a workshop near Gatwick at the rear of a B&B that only accommodates airline stewardesses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A very attractive business....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 26, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 26, 2012 Valve springs all OK as are tappet clearances. Carefully checking as I wait for rolling road appointment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john g Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Had a recent issue with my xflow - missing through the rev range when hot, so not quite the same as your issue, however after changing and checking various parts it turned out to be spark plugs breaking down when hot. The plugs were new last year and only done 2000 miles. As I said not quite the same issue but only a few quid to try to elliminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 31, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 31, 2012 Here we go. Rolling road two days ago........................prep was to look at fuel filter and check plugs and dizzy cap - clean and replace. Started missing straight away (at top revs) ignition system working fine, fuel read-outs good. By the end of the run-up it had cleared. "Do you use Millers CVL Octane booster" "Yup" say I........"That'll be it then, it's a regular occurence...." and it was...it seems. When the fault occured it was winter (3 weeks ago) practice was partially wet and the car didn't get up to temp. Come the race a build up of Brown - rust like colouring film on Spark plug electrode (noticed when plugs removed for check) effected the insulation and caused the misfire. Now, Mr King. I have followed your instructions diligently all these years and religiously fitted your recommended plugs (until 3 years ago when I realised I'd got the Seven and the Formula Ford plugs mixed the wrong way round - after 17 years racing) then fitted the right ones... B8ECS instead of B7ECS... Anyway, I was told BP6ES was the way to go to keep the CVL bugs at bay. Ran it up and got extra BHP! (I think the operator can get an extra 100 bhp if he wanted to actually). T'was Peter Baldwins RR I was on and he 'phoned Formula Ford engine builder and racer Simon Davey who recommended the plugs. A bit of an odd one that, would have had me guessing a lot. Saying that, It's not been out yet (until Snetterton 9th June) if it turns out it's still doing it and be fuel surge I'll feel daft for saying all this....However, if I win I'll buy everyone in the club a drink! Peter is a top man and is at Wilshers Garage, between Cambridge and Royston, Herts. Oh, added to say, I used TOTAL petrol for Silverstone from a garage that was running stocks low as it was about to be bought out by Esso. There may have been a quality issue there too. Edited by - dikko on 31 May 2012 09:18:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Dikko, 8's are way too cold for FF1600 - certainly not my recommendation - where'd you get that one from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Dikko, at least you had enough fuel to finish the rolling road session... 😳 Joining us at the Classic next month, and/or St Lucia with Michael for Xmas/New Year?????? 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 31, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sorry Rog, meant 7's....... Go back to Cannes Eugene... 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted May 31, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hey hang on! I did mean 8's.... in 2010 SOMEONE said this......... "The 8s are colder and would be recommended for track use over the 7s. But that assumes these grades are suitable for that particular engine spec in the first place and on that I can't comment without knowing a lot more about the engine such as compression ratio, etc. Generally though an 8 is a safe choice in a Crossflow." Now, who was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Blimey - so a general comment (aimed at Caterham installations which have a much higher compression ratio than a FF1600) has been extrapolated into into a definite recommendation for FF1600's. The point was that most (but not all) Crossflows in a Caterham will be safe on 8's for track use. If the plug is a little too cold, you might get a bit of fouling, but it it's too hot you might get melted pistons - which do you prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted June 1, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted June 1, 2012 You did actually tell me to run those 20 years ago (8's in the 7 & 7's in the FF) but I'd got it the wrong way round I thought when you pointed it out 2 years ago. Seemed to go well enough... so then, are the BP6ES a hot plug and maybe too hot? I've also got a technical question on FF Engine cam scrutineering for you if you have 5 minutes thinking time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative dikko Posted June 8, 2012 Author Area Representative Share Posted June 8, 2012 Roger, if you are back from hols, I would love to know your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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