Jaseb Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I've a crossflow in standard supersprint form and am toying with this whole 3d mapping malarky but was wondering what products are on the market? And yes I will miss the flames but improved driveability would be good (as will improved economy!), does it remove the occasional hesitation while waiting for the carbs to get themselves together when opening the throttle? I also understand it might release a few more ponies? What sort of figures are we talking or could it be tweaked for torque instead? That and as and when upgradeitis sets in more seriously can these things be re-mapped for an uprated engine? I did try a search but didn't find what I was after so if it's been done before and someone could direct me.... Buckingham Massive doing it in flares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Hi, try Roger King at RKE/Seven Workshop, he has an excellent Alpha kit It will significant transform your car for very little outlay, in terms of performance through the range and also economy Good value Regards Anthony X-Flow-power; the real way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Thanks Anthony I spoke to Chris this afternoon (think Roger was out at the time) and it does seem like a good bit of kit, I was wondering about the competition or if there's anything else worth a look? Buckingham Massive doing it in flares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveP Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 My understanding is that 3D mapping doesn't release any extra BHP, but merely provides better driveability through the rev range - perhaps that leads to a perceived extra bhp boost People that have had it done swear by it, right across the xflow tuned engine spectrum, so I guess therefore it's worth having SteveP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Jace, Did you get any indication of the cost? Steve Se7en-Up! Less is more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excess baggage Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Jace, I had the 3 D kit fitted by RK as part of a serious upgrade. Apart from any other benefits you still get flames! *thumbup* *thumbup* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted October 19, 2002 Author Share Posted October 19, 2002 Steve M Cost wise Chris reackoned on 200-250 quid-ish for labour (I think, will check my notes on monday to make sure) I didn't realise quite how much work was involved, plus the bits which off the top of his head he thought could be a further 500 (the 7 workshop ad in LF says 330 plus the dreaded upwards). Then I think a rolling road sesh would be on the cards but probably not absolutely necesary straight away so, what's that, 40 an hour, say 2 or 3 hours?! I'd say all in between 600 and a grand maybe all in?! Seems like a fairly healthy wedge of cash but as it's transferable for future upgrades and the other thing Chris said was one chap with a crossflow taking it easy saw 30mpg ❗ ❗ ❗ ❗ So it'll pay for itself........eventually 😬 Jason Buckingham Massive doing it in flares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted October 19, 2002 Author Share Posted October 19, 2002 Cheers EB, very pleased to hear about the flame situation, I did wonder how I would cope without 😬 Buckingham Massive doing it in flares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 JaseB, I am slightly surprised at the guestimate of 500 for the parts as Demon Thieves change 330 for the basic 2D Ignition kit (plus the dreaded) and the throttle position sensor is an additional 38 (plus dreaded). This already includes a standard mark up and basic map for a standard 1700 x-flow on twin 40s. The wiring loom looks quite basic, so I would have thought that an amateur should be able to fit it in a day, a professional in a lot less than 5 hours that 250 represents. For the difference between the DT price for parts, and the price you are suggesting for fully fitted, I would look at doing it yourself. The only part of installation tah may be tricky is picking up the crankshaft position. I do not know whether the Alpha system uses the existing distributor with the advance locked down, or whether they use a sensor to the crankshaft pulley. Cheers, Graham Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted October 20, 2002 Author Share Posted October 20, 2002 Thanks Graham, that's certainly worth a look What's the difference between 2d and 3d tho?! Buckingham Massive doing it in flares... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Looked into this a month or so back. Cost for parts worked out to be: £528 for 3d with a distributor and £687 distributor less. Direct from Weber was only about £25 - £30 cheeper. I decided that I could buy a lot of fuel for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Haighton Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 A full Weber alpha ignition only kit, including 'black box', wiring loom, throttle pot, crank ring and positiopn sensor, air temperature sensor and coil pack will cost about £650 ish. Fitting extra - or do it yourself. Rolling road set up - about £150 ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Worth every penny, on a modified X-Flow! C7 PWT X-Flow all Steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 The difference between 2D and 3D is that 2D gives the correct ignition advance at any point in the rev range for FULL THROTTLE only. When you are at anything less than full throttle the engine will require more advance but will not get it. This would be a small improvement over the original distributer. 3D adds in a throttle position sensor which senses your throttle position (unsurprisingly) this allows the ignition to be mapped at the best setting determined by not only engine speed but also throttle opening. As you spend 99% of your time driving at something less than full throttle it does make sense to map the engine correctly for that mode. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Cost of a Crossflow kit is £415 + VAT. You will also need a throttle pot kit at £36.60 + VAT. The basic kit is £330 + VAT. It is easy to quote this to show a lower price, but it won't include the toothed trigger wheel, the crank sensor, etc. The distributorless version is £535 + VAT and also needs the throttle pot added. You may also need new plug leads and a plug to fill the gap left by your distributor. DIY fit is not difficult. Sorry if this seems like an ad', but so many asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 JaseB, I've owned standard and 3D (Alpha - present car) and the difference is staggering. My present car (with 35 BHP more than the old one on a 264 cam (old was more like a 244 profile)) is better in terms of fuel economy (on cruise) and driveability. It is an upgrade that I think is very worth while. Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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