JonP Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Can anybody tell me the difference between the 'gold' pump and the 'purple' pump? Many thanks Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Nothing technical, except that the purple pump is no longer used in new cars. Not even sure you can buy it still. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 AFAIK, the only real difference is the pumping capacity. The gold pump came in to address the perceived problem on SLR race cars a few years ago, that the oil wasn't being returned to the oil tank fast enough after a corner. Or something like that. It was (it would seem) then necessary to fit a much more sturdy tube from the sump to the pump, as the original job would collapse due to the degree of vacuum generated by the pump, and a swirl tower became necessary due to the amount of aeration in the oil. One bodge leads to another ? It would seem that Caterham have since decided to offer just the one pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I dunno that "bodge" is right. "Development" might be better. 😬 Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Thanks guys. Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 The purple pump is still available and cheaper then the gold pump. The gold pump is a higher capacity pump and is driven by a smaller pulley so runs at higher rpm than the purple pump relative to crank revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I have run the purple pump from new ( 1997 ) , with no known ill effects . How is the improvement measured with the change to the gold pump ?? . What were the problems encountered with the purple pump on the racecars ?? dave Edited by - Dave J on 18 Oct 2002 16:24:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Hi, Yes I have run the purple pump without problems too, but then its only (old boy 😬road use. I raised the question because everybody always seems to refer to the 'gold' pump and I wanted to check I was not leaving myself open to an engine failure! I don't have the anti aeration tower either, which having read various threads about K series oil problems is probably NOT a good idea. Suspect I actually need an Apollo system. Cheers! Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 The answer to the question above might be, do you run your cars as hard as the SLR race boys for 30 mins at a time? If not you may well be ok. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Steve , I probably dont run as hard as the SLR race boys for 30 mins , but not far off it for 20 mins at 7400 - 8000 rpm on track as ECR and Keith J will testify . I was seeking the answer why the purple pump was uprated realy . Was is due to engine failiers due to scavenge rate or just to allow a greater safety margin . Also was the tower fitted at the same time as the gold pump as a result of greater areation through larger capacity pump or ????? . dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Steve / Dave, I guess the pump rating is dependent on how much oil flow you have, so on my low miles road engine purple is OK! I'd be interested in the history of or desirability thereof of the 'tower'. One for PC perhaps or RK if they are out there somewhere! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 The scavenge pump must be rated above the rating of the pressure pump. It always has circumstances in which it has to "catch up". The caterham dry sump runs a single pickup and the K has known problems with oil collecting in the head in corners. This all makes a higher capacity pump a good idea. All dry sumps aerate the oil and need de-aeration built into the tank in some form or another. The way you determine for certain whether the pump is rated sufficiently is you run a smaller pump or gear down the pump until engines go bang on a regular basis. You then go up a size or gear up the pump. This is more or less what "experience" tells you and where people like Pace are coming from when they run double the scavenge capacity vs. pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Re the oil gathering in the head - how can a bigger pump clear any more oil from the head , when the reason the oil gathers is that the drains are not positioned for the angle of the K in a seven ? , that is , there will always be a set volume of oil in the exhaust side until it reaches the drains where gravity takes over ? The scavenge *is* greater than the pump with the purple as a vacum is formed in the engine , this vacum is stronger on the gold pump hence the clucking noise and a bigger hisss when you remove the cam cover oil cap . Is the de aeration capability of the bell tank alone sufficient with the purple pump ? , as the oil is resident in there longer due to the lower pumping capacity . Just thoughts ........ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Sorry, I was just talking from a theory POV. The head drainage means that the pump has to catch up when the oil finally ends up down below - hence the putative need for a big capacity pump. All dry sump systems have higher capacity scavenge than pressure. The question is all about how many times more capacity do you need. Answer: As much as prevents blow-ups. The oil is not resident in the bellhousing for longer because of the lower scavenge capacity. In fact the other way round - the gold pump will get the oil to the tank quicker. The pressure side is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Hi, thanks for all the inputs, re: deaeration, is the filler tower good enough or am I looking at an Apollo or similar Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Conning tower works and is a neater bit of packaging than the Apollo (cheaper oil changes). You might not even need that considering Dave J's experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 JonP, My purple pump system came without the swirl tower. I have the swirl tower now (a small story), but it worked fine without. Dave J's works fine without and he's clearing 200bhp and lots of track use. Despite R500s having Apollos as well as the full DS system, I can't see it being necessary for you, given your stated usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 If a pump causes aeration, won't its vanes/rotors eventually exhibit "pitting"? Mine's (gold pump) done 16,000 odd miles so far, and upon visual inspection (through the hole) I can't see any signs of such. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Westie Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 V7 If a pump causes aeration, won't its vanes/rotors eventually exhibit "pitting"? I think you are talking about the effect that you get with water when it cavitates. The pump design is different and oil is a bit less aggresive than water in these circumstances so there are no ill effects. The biggest problem with DS pumps is when they ingest bits of blown engine 😳 The car in front is a Westfie1d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Very many thanks to all contributors...I think it sounds like a case of 'if it ain't broke don't mess with it'...not till the evenings get a bit lighter any way! Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Excellent .. that's answered my question *thumbup* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I have also run a purple pump for the last 3 years for sproints and track days, with no issues, and no aeration issues either. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Would a Brise kidney type DS tank have sufficient de-aerating effect? I am going to pick one of these up for the ex Peter Carmichael PTP EVO220 K1800 (with purple pump) and I hadn't anticipated putting an extra swirl tank into the system..... SeaView!!!! 😬 😬here *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 29 Nov 2006 18:08:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Fester. The Brise tank has a de-aeration stage built in. For this to work properly though the oil has to be below the perforated baffle. This is easily visible through the filler hole. In this configuration my K with the Pace pump & the Brise tank holds circa 6.5 litres of oil. Plenty withou overfilling 😬 Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Blimey, that took over 4 years for this answer !! R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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