craigyb Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Just changed the foam baffle for the first time. many thanks to Alcester Sevens for a great write up which helped me a lot. Here's a link to some pics which show the state of the baffle. It was severly darkened, however it was not breaking up and still had a similar structural strength to the new one. There were no signs of any material coming off it and ending up in the pic up filter. The last time it was changed was 2 year ago, with approx 7k miles, and oil change when apollo was fitted in april 2011. Car has done 4 trackdays in that time, the rest is spirited road driving and touring. Hope this adds to the knowledge Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy the 7th Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Remove the baffle (devil's sporn) and do the gasket mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I ditched the foam last year. It had also been changed every two years and was always a similar condition as the pictures in the link. I was uncomfortable following the advice of people I don't know but in the end decided that it was only a matter of time before I had a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Coxall Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Looks and sounds similar to mine - just removed and gasket mod carried out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyb Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I can't see a compelling reason to remove it based on what I learnt above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The compelling reason for me was that Oily (God of K-series engines) said to take it out. And he is always right 😶🌫️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 CraigyB, You will only see the compelling reason when your engine fails as a result and therein lies the problem. I have seen a large number of Caterham engines that have had the foam fitted. In many of those cases the foam has broken up and clogged the oil pickup, in most cases partially, in some cases completely. This seriously restricts the delivery of oil around the engine, oil starvation spells death to an engine. Based on the large sample of engines I have seen and the prevalence of foam break up I would strongly advise owners to avoid fitting it. This thread shows a very small sample size. The effectiveness of a system is measured in the number of times it fails rather than by the times it succeeds. The bottom line is that it is *your* engine, it benefits me nothing either way whether you fit the foam or not, it does however affect you. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyb Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Oily, To get this right, are you saying that there is a quality issue with the foam? In other words, some will break up sooner than others? How comes Caterham recommend keeping it in? Perhaps the problems are more because people don't change the foam regularly enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As I proved seven or so years ago, you can kill the foam in as little as 70 miles from new with the right (i.e. wrong!) conditions! Now that was a pretty extreme case - but it shows that there is no 'safe' mileage as such. As Oily points out - it's up to you. For me, once-bitten, forever shy in this particular case! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 CraigyB, I can only tell you what I know by empirical observation. I have made no comments about the quality of the foam or the frequency of change. I cannot believe that every instance of foam disintegration is down to the foam being left in past the recmmended limits, many of the instances I have seen are in cars where the owners were very fastidious WRT servicing and maintenance. The instances of foam breakup I have seen have been at various mileages. One owner told me the oil and foam had been changed less than 200 miles prior , this evidently wasnt true as it was black and crispy and almost completely disintegrated. He wasnt happy with the service agent who claimed to have changed it. I have no axe to grind. The counsel is there for you to act on as you wish. Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 16 Jan 2012 15:23:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyb Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 My only motive for posting was to share some facts and add to the collective knowledge. Seeing as I do know when the foam was replaced, the intervening history, and subsequent condition of the foam. Should I come a cropper, I will share that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The foam problem is that it definitely fails for some and no one is sure why. My non-mechanics guess is that combustion pollutants get in the oil and turn into hot, gritty acid. As the engine gets older the pistons/cylinders will become more worn and more junk gets in the oil. Hammered engines, cheap oil, infrequent changes, dodgy piston rings, bad luck will make matters worse. Only a theory but I've not heard a better one. It would be nice if Caterham published what the foam is for to help people decide what is best for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignity Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Quoting 11884: It would be nice if Caterham published what the foam is for to help people decide what is best for them. Edited after reading your post properly I understand that it is fitted to avoid aeration caused by windage? Edited by - Dignity on 20 Jan 2012 05:46:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadsport06 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Craig, with respect, you have not added to the collective knowledge. Some people have stuck to using the foam and change it at the recommended intervals and have been fine. Others have stick to using the foam and change it at the recommended intervals and have had the foam break up and damage the engine. It is your call to leave it in, if you do it may be fine, you may also fall into the category of those who have had it break up and damage the engine. I couldn't see the point of it being there and I was always worried about whether or not it was breaking up. I took out the foam, it hadn't broken up, but that simply means I was one of the lucky ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Quoting roger heeley: Remove the baffle (devil's sporn) and do the gasket mod Rog(or anybody else) - what's the gasket mod? I am about to remove the foam when the engine is out next weekend but I thought it was just a case of removing it Edited by - Cookie Monster on 19 Jan 2012 13:57:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 have a look here Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thx Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenF Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 How comes Caterham recommend keeping it in? If Caterham changed their advice (and said don't fit it), then wouldn't they be liable for claims from people who had suffered engine damage as a result of the foam breaking up? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 19, 2012 Member Share Posted January 19, 2012 Quoting BenF: If Caterham changed their advice (and said don't fit it), then wouldn't they be liable for claims from people who had suffered engine damage as a result of the foam breaking up? Not necessarily. But if it could be shown that they knew of a problem and didn't tell customers it would count strongly against them in a claim for damages. They have to comply with UK contract law and EU regulations (which drive quite a lot of car recalls) but even apart from statute law they have to act in good faith and reasonably. I don't know if there have been relevant recent cases about cars. Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 19 Jan 2012 22:15:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makingff Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I was informed, by an ex-Caterham employee, that the foam helped keep the oil temperature down. I don't know if this is the case or not (not being an engineer) and, for the record, have had my foam removed and the gasket mod done. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignity Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Quoting Dignity: Quoting 11884: It would be nice if Caterham published what the foam is for to help people decide what is best for them. I understand that it is fitted to avoid aeration caused by windage? I guess some one could call them to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I have mine installed and as far as I know, every other car in the race series has theirs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I still have mine after 10yrs and many miles, most of 'em thrashed at high rpm (6spd and low ratio diff), lots of commuting, many Alpine and motoway miles to get there, it lives outside and bascially gets abused 😬 I have no argument either way - I have the gasket mod as well as the foam. But I always use the same oil, and always have. Foam comes out filthy black, but not crispy and I've not spotted any bits loose or bunging anything up. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The foam cannot affect oil temperature as the only way you can do this is to divert heat energy flow out of the engine. Think back to school physics, law of conservation of energy etc and this must be the case. I though that the foam was there to restrict the oil surge effects of hard cornering. As such it could affect oil pressure, very dramatically under surge conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 .... but it is nailed under the block - in the roof of the sump ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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