naddy Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Could you cast an eye over this please... I'm fitting a Pace DS kit to a K series. I have the Pace kit. The Pace kit comes without a tank and I have decided to use a CC belltank. I have a bare CC belltank, nothing else. I'm not asking about the merit or otherwise of this setup, merely what extra parts I need... With reference to this list here I have studied it and I believe I will need the following parts to make the belltank portion of the setup 'complete' 75722 HI-LINE SCAVENGE FILTER 1 N 75698 BOTTOM PLATE ROVER 1 N 75721U SWIRL TOWER/TOP PLATE ASS 1 N 30P224A CLUTCH PEDAL STOP AN/1842 CLUTCH ACTUATING FORK 1 N P1290A EXPANSION BOTTLE CAP-NO HOLE 1 N WSB125 CATCH TANK-OIL 2 LITRE 1 N That still leaves hoses, their fittings and breather pipes but thats not the issue in this post. And yes, I know the Pace kit is twin output and the swirl tower is single input. Does the above list look right or do I need anything else from CC to complete the belltank assy.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not sure about the list descriptions/part numbers, but: Caphead screws swirl tower to bell tank Caphead screws bottom plate to bell tank O ring seal bottom plate to bell tank Oil temp sender or blanking screw Scavenge return pipe male adapter to tank Oil feed pipe male adapter to tank plus internal gauze filter Longer bell tank to gearbox bolts Swirl tower screw cap plus dipstick (or later fixed top) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As above the Pace system has a twin scavenage return, however Pace did offer a bespoke manifold for this into 1x -12 return pipe might be worth a call to see if it's still available. Might be worth a call to Caterham or Titan to get an exploded diagram of the bell tank set up for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted December 14, 2011 Leadership Team Share Posted December 14, 2011 7WotW, Pace appear to know nothing of a bespoke manifold (even though repeatedly suggested so on BC) but it is possible to mate the twin scavenge Pace pump to the belltank using one inlet on the tower, and the other inlet on the tank (normally blanked off when the tower is fitted). Only partial de-aeration of the oil flow though. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If your Pace system is one of the new batch made for the K series check the belt alignment from the crank to the pump, On both the kits we bought they were well out and the new design of pump bracket would not offer enough adjustment, In the end we had to machine both pulleys to get the belt to run true, At £1200 a kits its totally unacceptable. There again we ordered 3 dry sump tanks from Brise and they all leaked. personally speaking the attitude of both these company's stink !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 When I spoke to Neil @ Pace (who's now left) he told me there was a manifold they had designed and he could have one made for me however the cost at that time was quite high so I opted for a twin return easi clean tank instead and a double hose run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Has anyone had problems with the exposed belt drive on this system? I mean to do with collecting stones between belt and pulley teeth..... I am about to fit a similar Pace DS system and I was thinking it'd be intelligent to put a Hall pickup on the pump so it reads the spinning pump pulley. It could be rigged so that if the pully stops while the engine is running, it cuts the ignition. This would save the engine blowing up. Personally I don't think relying on an oil pressure idiot light is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Fitting a sensor to the D/S pump pulley is a good idea, We have fitted the lower chassis Ali plate that runs from the Rad back to the Engine block this helps to keep out stones and seals the bottom of the Engine bay well most of it, I dont think there have been to many problem's with stone's getting trapped in the belt or the belts failing if they run true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 A while ago a friend of mine cut some alloy billet with a water jet, to make a belt shield. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2527/4118121024_b36e7aeb18_o.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2642/4118121018_2da1cb7412_o.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2616/4118121014_75a6c596c0_o.jpg Unfortunately he can't repeat it as we can't find the digital pattern and anyway it's not really economical to replicate like this. It'd probably be possible to make one out of plastic or even GRP or CF, but is there the demand? Mine will have a proper alloy front cover. Edited by - Unclefester on 14 Dec 2011 16:52:01 Edited by - Unclefester on 14 Dec 2011 16:53:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The Billet cover looks ideal , As long as you have a removable front cover to enable access to check the condition of the belt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Malcolm. Thanks, I think I can identify what I need now. It was mainly the bolts and screws that I'd overlooked... 7wotw. Stu is referring to lengthy discussions that I had with Pace when he says that Pace know nothing of the manifold. The current 'go to' man at Pace for K series DS kits was unaware that CC produce a Bellhousing tank. He was stunned when I told him about it and evidenced it with photographs. It was impossible to get any useful technical help on using the Pace kit with a belltank. He (apparently) quizzed the staff there and nobody knew of a manifold and he looked at their archive and found no drawings or plans relating to one either. furthermore I was told that they would not be prepared to make one either as it was impossible... I've no doubt that these manifolds existed, but nowadays... Forget it. They don't want to know. Unclefester. That is an extremely nice belt shield 🥰 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I asked Pace about a belt protector case ages ago. I have a very vague recollection of some conversation about MGF Cup race engines that ran a Pace with a belt cover, but basically they said "we don't make one..." which seems to fit with the experience above. It does seem a serious omission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonino Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 unclefester, i'm still in if you decide to make a batch of gpr belt protector! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I've gone through Malcolm's list now that I'm sober 😳 I am little stuck on a couple of things: Is "Oil feed pipe male adapter to tank plus internal gauze filter" The same as Filter Union - 5/8 x 5/8"BSP - Rover Dry Sump ? Does it go inside the tank? What is "Scavenge return pipe male adapter to tank"? And from my list could somebody explain Hi Line Scavenge Filter Assembly and Alloy Spacer Hi Line Pipe I thought I understood these but now I'm confused about the "filter" and the "gauze" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thats the one...Oops! the gauze filter is integral with the male adapter for the oil feed . Scavenge return pipe male adapter to tank. The scavenge pipe has a male union to the bell tank tower. Hi Line Scavenge Filter Assembly. This is the scavenge pick up in the bottom of the (Rover) sump. Consists of the anodised housing, gauze filter, retaing circlip and O ring. Alloy Spacer Hi Line Pipe. I think this is a small spacer for fixing the scavenge pipe to the outside of the (Rover) sump, two needed. Send me an email and I'll return some photos, I have my DS system on the bench at the moment as I'm doing an engine swap. Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 15 Dec 2011 23:50:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks, I'm using a pace sump and pump... Hoses will need to be bespoke (from think auto I expect)... 1) So I will still need the 'gauze filter' thingy?? 2) But the Scavenge return pipe male adapter to tank. The scavenge pipe has a male union to the bell tank tower. I won't need as I can order a pipe with the appropriate fitting?? 3) If the Hi Line scavenge filter and the alloy spacers are the sump end - I will not need these at all with my setup?? YHBM with my email, I think it's getting clearer now but pics of the belltank portion of things would be good, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 1. Yes, Filter Union - 5/8 x 5/8"BSP - Rover Dry Sump-this provides the oil pick up in the tank ( complete with a gauze filter ) and male adapter for the oil feed pipe on the other end 2. You could order a pipe with the appropriate fixing 3. No Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 16 Dec 2011 00:28:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Quoting tonino: unclefester, i'm still in if you decide to make a batch of gpr belt protector! I'll have a look at feasibility of a short run....anyone else interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Pace don't always use guaze filters in the scavenge pick ups, mine didn't have any. Re hose's the most cost effective route is using the push fit red / blue alloy unions from 'Think' and the appropriate black push fit hose, where possible use straight unions as these are about 1/3 of the price of angled unions 😳. dont forget the club disconyt here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 7wotw. Thanks, discount noted. Unclefester, I'd be interested too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacP Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'd be interested in a belt cover. I'm also interested in the Hall sensor on the pulley idea - how hard would it be to engineer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Quoting MacP: I'd be interested in a belt cover. I'm also interested in the Hall sensor on the pulley idea - how hard would it be to engineer? Apparently not very. I talked to Colin Mills on here about this a few years ago, and he had a solution then, but as I'm a total dunce at electronic wizardry, I don't recall the details. Basically, the Hall sensor has to be giving a signal to the ECU to allow it to fire the injectors or ignition, and if this signal stops, the ECU shuts the system down immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnv Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 is there a gasket between the DS bellhousing/tank and the gearbox? .. would also be interested in the belt guard thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 No gasket but a smear of silicone goes around the blind hole in the bell housing for the selector rod to poke into. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 is there a gasket between the DS bellhousing/tank and the gearbox? 5 speed -yes, 6 speed- no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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