Pezky Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am with BOSS on this one. £5K will get a good spec zetec engine, around the 170-180bhp mark including the bits needed to fit it. I had the option to upgrade my old xflow, because it was easier but it just doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Only the 'baby' crossflow (late endura) had a 3 bearing crank, the crossflow as fitted to Caterhams was 5 bearing. That said I agree with every other point. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think that buried in all that some really key info may be lost. You can get cheap steel cranks from Ford. I seem to recall dikko posting this not so long ago but can't find it when searching. I have a 200 2.0 zetec on TBs and whilst it suits me I have also changed alot of the car accordingly. The car is not not as light on its feet as it was with the XF possibly bvecause the engine seems to mounts very far forward relative to the XF. It leaks no oil. I've had it really hot (they're hard to bleed the water system) and not blown a head gasket. They run better on TBs but I don't believe that creates any more actual power. As someone else here has mentioned there is a risk that you miss the power delivery of the XF. The zetec is less frenetic. The resultant car is much faster than anything around on track but in traffic it's still hard work versus hard driven big beemers etc. Got to wonder if buying a BD variant isn't a considered choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Loving the X-flow is like preferring a Caterham instead of some other roadster, no sensible person would drive a Caterham yet we all love them to bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Another advantage of the Zetec is that it fits in place of a X-flow using the same engine mounts and with relative ease. My car has an English live axle and I agree completely with those who have said that whilst an Ital will be fine for the moment with sub 200 bhp, surely it's wise to do the job properly and change the axle. You don't have to do it all at once either! Do the 160 bhp Zetec conversion properly and keep the Ital for the time being. Keep your eyes open for an English axle and get it converted whilst still enjoying the car, then fit it when done at your convenience. You're then in a position, whenever you are ready, to up the power... The main thing is to do each part properly first time and you really won't regret it. I've driven K-Series cars (1.6 and 1.8), Vauxhall engined cars and several X-flows. All are excellent in differing ways. However, the Zetec is as close in character and sound to a X-flow. It returns MUCH better mpg and parts are plentiful and cheap. Frankly, it's a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the bass man Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I know this shows complete indecision but I cannot at this stage make my mind up about the engine. I would love a BDR but cannot afford one. The Zetec gives lots of lovely power, is reliable and realitively cheap, but it is heavier than a crossflow. The crossflow sounds fantastic, I love the look of a pair of K&N filters over Webers sticking out the side of the car, and I love the free reving of a crossflow. But they are not so powerful as a Zetec, a bit leaky on the oil front. The Crossflow also drinks more juice but that really isn't a major concern for a fun car. I really do appreciate everything people have said so far and the advice from all angles is great. However, I need to go away for a while and think carefully which way to go. As has been wisely said. I want to get it right first time and possible do the axle and gearbox at the same time. I will report back on any progress onmy decision. regards Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Matt, always would be a difficult position but my two penith :- The Zetec is not that much heavier than the X/Flow K&N's on Webers look great on a Zetec as Well The Zetec on Webers sound as good as the X/FLow on full chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the bass man Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 CaterBram jr, thanks for the reply. You see this is one of my issues, I have preconceptions about the options, and having only had Crossflow's in the past including a nice hot one I am probably biased in their favour. Part of this exercise is to try and get over any bias and make a balanced decision. Regards M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular--Bob Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 My view on this was that when a 5K 160hp crossflow lets go, and it probably will, you will pay that again to fix it, 'cos most of it will be scrap. If a 160hp zetec lets go a used ebay engine is £200 (new is only £650) and it can be changed in 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 If you listen carefully to my 1800 zetec with twin 40s on full chat she sounds like a BDA !! Oh. They look a bit like BDA with 40s & mines got a pipercross airfilter. Sounds & looks even better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesG Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm sure there is a BD-esque cam cover available for the zetec engine isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Added to which a 160bhp zetec isn't going to let go because it's in standard trim and there are thousands out there hauling round Focuses without incident for 100,000 miles plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 By all means keep the X-flow under the bench whilst you use the Zetec. Then, if you get withdrawal symptoms you can spend a few days popping it back into the car. Then you'll realise just how good the Zetec actually is 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the bass man Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 By all means keep the X-flow under the bench whilst you use the Zetec. Then, if you get withdrawal symptoms you can spend a few days popping it back into the car. Then you'll realise just how good the Zetec actually is You know this could be the solution I am looking for, get the Zetec, and do up the crossflow as a project/spare. I think we have a winner/solution 😬 Simplez Regards and thanks to everyone for their advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalongbloke Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I don't know if I am just lucky... My crossflow does not leak a drop of oil... Except from the breather. And I have dropped and refitted the sump! Zetec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodsonpe Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So.......is the consensus to use the Zetec with the 40's still or to go the hole hog to injection? I imagine the injection is more economical and complicated whereas the 40's are simpler, juicer but more fun? Or is it not that straight cut as always? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Unfortunately, there never seems to be a right answer, it's down to personal preference, budgets etc.... If going the whole hog and fitting injection, then yes, fuel economy would be better and you'd get more power, but you gotta pay more. As I was making the move from x/flow to Zetec I decided to stick with 40s and accept that they are ultimately a compromise. I have recently spoken to Pete at Raceline and he reckons that for a road car you'd be better off sticking with the 40s rather than going to 45s. I've been very happy with mine especially on our recent 2,000 blat to Italy/Switzerland. Funnily enough my x/flow never leaked a drop of oil, even when it finally went bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My take is that carbs are great fun, if you like tinkering they are excellent, they may sound better than injectors (depending on what you do re manifold, TBs, etc) and they will give you great performance. They are always a compromise though, you set them up as best you can and sometimes they will be too rich, sometimes not. Sometimes they will spit and fart. This you may regard as part of the character of the car, it's a fire-breathing rorty beast, it runs like a 3 legged dog below 2000 rpm then it clears its throat and takes off, and there's a power step at 4000 and 5000 rpm as it comes on song. Injectors OTOH can be mapped to be very efficient and give great power and tractability throughout the range. It will be costly but could be very satidfying, esp if you develop bike TBs to fit. One thing is that you can set up the Webers from the XF to run the Zetec and install TBs or injection when you are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin J Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I sometimes think that if we were born into a world where all that existed was fuel injection for petrol engines with the complexity of an electronic control unit & sepperate injectors etc etc & then a clever inventor came up with a simple all mechanical device called a carburettor it would be a revelation ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the bass man Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 My idea is to keep the 40's get used to the engine and then go to TB's later if more power is needed, but, having spoken to a couple of people I may not need to do that as the carbs should give me all I should want - 190bhp. Now I need to think about gearbox and rear axle to see if I can improve that area of the car 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Got to say I love the webber's, took some experimentation to get my head around setting them up but once you've learnt the knack there not difficult. Nice stable tickover at 1100 RPM, an easy drive at low revs, and then really comes on song at 4000 RPM & pulls right through the rev range. Got the X/Flow in the garage, never know might one day do it up but until then it's a great door stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klunk Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi , I can't see you changing your mind now but, if you decide to go back to the hot xflow idea, I have a fully tricked up steel one (180hp spec) sitting idle. Although I made the change to zetec last year, I miss the additiveness/rev happiness of the steel x/flow. Alternatively, my de-dion zetec car is going to be up for sale in the next week for a very reasonable price - almost a free upgrade! 😬 Regards, Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbod Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Not that I think this Zetec would be an easy fit into an S3, but scores highly on the £/bhp stakes!:here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Quoting Martin Jeffrey: I sometimes think that if we were born into a world where all that existed was fuel injection for petrol engines with the complexity of an electronic control unit & sepperate injectors etc etc & then a clever inventor came up with a simple all mechanical device called a carburettor it would be a revelation ❗ You mean that we would all rush to adopt this new technology that was half as fuel efficient as EFI, gave flat spots and rough running at intervals and needed annual maintenance and skilled setup ? Of course we would, because fuel injection as fitted to modern cars is so difficult to live with, and causes engines to run so badly. Mine in the tintop has done 102,000 miles and has needed, erm, no maintenance whatsoever. It runs perfectly and always has. Find me a carb that will do that. A previous car went to about 130k before the injectors needed an overhaul. Anyone fancy setting up some carbs after 100k miles? Thought not, and that's before you consider the maintenance over that time and the 50% higher fuel bills. I would no sooner go back to a manual advance/retard lever and a magneto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 BOSS, modern cars have to be perfect because 90% of the drivers have no clue what they are doing, the don't even consider the wheater conditions they drive into due to the electronics. A common quote : it must be slippy because the ESP started to work rather than reduce speed because it's slippy My Seven is not a daily driver so i accept that it's not perfect, in fact i would hate it when it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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