Having abit of trouble with my TwinCam ??

[PSJ]

So since getting the 7 back on the road, from the start it's not been running 100%

 

1st i thought it was the fuel/carbs, fitted fuel filter, had the Dellorto's stripped down, cleaned and setup. Replaced the fuel pump as old one was running 1psi, now running 6psi.

 

But still not much better off so i checked the newly fitted plugs and #3 and #4 are getting oiled. Iv been told the piston rings are probably to blame. Also had a compression test and #3 is low (140) res are all around 165-175. Once plugs are cleaned and dried off it drives fine but sooner or later it starts backfiring and running rough again due to #3 and #4 getting oiled. Obviously this is no good! :(

 

Basically I know I'm going to have to have the engine re-built to get it back up to scratch and running good again. Probably due one anyway as it's clocking on 53k now!

 

So who and were is good for doing a good quality rebuild on the TwinCam!? What past Exp have you owners had of re-builds etc etc?

 

Thanks, Piers.

[myothercarsa2cv]

Did you have the carbs balanced as well?

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Where are you based - may help others recommend an engine-fixer ?

[PSJ]

I assume so as I asked the garage to sort them out and set them up properly.

 

Im based in Cumbria (Carlisle) but don't mind travelling to get the job done right :)

 

 

[peterg]

Replaced the fuel pump as old one was running 1psi, now running 6psi.

 

6psi those carbs were only designed to run on roughly 2.5-3psi so you could be putting the float chamber seals under pressure (excuse the pun) if you haven't got an inline fuel pressure regulator to correct it down from 6

 

 

 

 

[PSJ]

!!!

 

erm well it was the garage who did all the work. they are a classic specialist here in the NW and are quite a respected garage so i guess they have done the correct things! they know the dellorto carbs well and work on classic rallye cars etc.

 

 

just took the plugs out, cleaned them and put them back in and took her out for a quick spin. ran ok, no backfireing, sounded healthy etc but it wont budge past 70mph.. and feels dull

 

can anyone recommend a specialist who could do the rebuild?

 

Thanks, Piers.

 

Edited by - PSJ on 16 May 2011 15:32:11

[TomB]

Did the Europa ever have a Twink? Banks in Southport might be able to help? Might be worth a phone call.

[4ster]

A big for Jondel Race Engines in Northamptonshire here.

 

Did a superb job with my Twink but, as usual in this business, quality and expertise doesn't come cheap. Give Pete Jones a call, he is always helpful.

[JACK FLASH]

Hi,

 

Some advice from a Belgian owner of a 1979 Twin Cam (1,6 tall block) built for the German market in those good old days.

 

In the first 2 years of Twink ownership I also fiddled and struggled with the engine, among other things, and decided due to the troubles to have a full rebuild. We did it with the help of a local classic Ford specialist and buying the parts in the UK.

 

There is a lot of information on the Twin Cam available and if you do not want to get the last BHP out of your engine, I believe it is possible to do the rebuild (partly) yourself as long as you take the time and be cautious.

 

Strangly enough, initially I also had problems with too much fuel that caused the oil to contaminate. The solution was simple, thanks to the advice of Mick at Redline I switched back to the mechanical fuel pump and I never had the problem again.

 

If you have the engine out of the car it would be very usefull to have a look at some other crucial components.

 

- radiator and cooling circuit: I modified it to a pressurized system

- starter and alternator, I used special uprated parts bought at Burton

- oil circuit, make an investment in a dry sump

- carbs, dismantle them and do a rebuild (my engine uses Weber 40 carbs)

- gearbox, just have a good look and replace things when necessary

 

Concerning the engine some remarks:

 

- have the cylinder head completely cleaned, pressure tested and measured, I had to have the bores for the camshafts redone

- do as much polishing as you can inside the cylinder head

- water pump, consider the Burton kit

 

The rest of the engine is quite straightforward, hopefully you do not have to have the pistons or crankshaft replaced. These are costly.

 

Since the rebuild my engine is running beautifully, always starts and is very smooth even in the lower revs. But I say, do a decent rebuild to standard specification with quality parts and you will enjoy the car and engine.

 

If you are interested in my experience, please write me a mail and perhaps I can give you some tips and spare you some money.

 

Jack Flash

j.jackflash@hotmail.com

[Mark Durrant]

I can vouch for 4* engine which is the best sounding engine in the clubs Speed Championship . Considering the age of the engine and that of it's owner (sorry Paul) it is very competitive 😶‍🌫️

[skeetsy]

Hi Piers,

 

Nice car (I've been following your progress on the Pistonheads thread )

 

If you do fancy having a go at the rebuild yourself I can recommend Miles Wilkins book like this one but as it's out of print they do seem to sell for over £100!

 

If your engine runs ok but won't accelerate well then it is likely to be either fueling or ignition related so this may be a distributor related problem not advancing the ignition correctly, or it will be down to the carbs misbehaving in some fashion.

 

On the basis that someone knowledgeable (hopefully) has had a look at the carbs then it may well be worth having a look at the distributor - do you know if it is a vacuum advance or a mechanical advance distributor? (a vacuum advance dizzy will have a rubber pipe connecting from the side to the inlet manifold at some point) if it's a vacuum advance then the hose could be perished and leaking or collapsing or it could have come off!

 

hope this helps a bit.

 

Richard

[skeetsy]

Quoting TomB: 

Did the Europa ever have a Twink? Banks in Southport might be able to help? Might be worth a phone call.

 

Yes the Europa was produced with a Twincam, more desirable but less common than the Renault engined variety!

[David Mirylees]

I had my twink in my Europa rebuilt by QED QEDLink many years ago. Superb job.

Just by the bye, I don't often rev my engines over 6K rpm and QED sorted my engine to give really good performance at the rpm that I like.

However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, quality doesn't come cheap.

[DJ.]

When I owned an elan, it had a little engine trouble, mainly leaks, so my father and I took the engine out. I didn't have any previous experience of engine rebuilding, but we followed Miles Wilkin's book (mentioned by skeetsy)

 

The book gave a step by step guide to stripping the engine. I then took all the parts that we felt needed checking to QED who were very helpful. Their expert measured the bores, crank journals etc and he gave lots of good advice. I left the head and block with QED, and they re-bored it and sourced an over sized set of pistons to match. I also had unleaded valve guides fitted and new valve seats as the old ones had been butchered by someone who thought they were gas flowing the head.

 

I picked up the parts, once again followed the book, and it started first time and ran perfectly until I sold the car about 5 years later.

 

So if you can get a copy of that book and some help from an expert who is going to make money selling the parts, it is quite possible to rebuild a twin cam without any prior experience.

 

Edited by - DJ. on 16 May 2011 23:03:29

[Sheds Moderator]

You can get a factory fresh, new, Zetec black top, putting out 140bhp and returning 30-odd to the gallon, for £625 plus delivery.

 

Just putting it into perspective, if your priority is driving the thing.

[PSJ]

Thankyou very much for the input guys :)

 

Honestly I wouldn't want to strip it and attempt to sort it myself as I would want it done properly and would like the car on the road ASAP for this summer. Id rathe leave the engine with the pro's after all it is the heart and soul of the car, the most improtant bit!

 

The Zetech black top is also a good idea but again I think with this Caterham, for me it wouldn't be the same. The TwinCam is what makes this car different and Special to the others. Plus the noise is heavenly! I also think it would soon add up to similar money once another 4-2-1 exhaust is sourced and fitted aswell as Throttle bodie (iTb's) and all the mod'n for it all to fit.

 

When getting it rebuilt I will be getting the valves changed to suit unleaded fuel and money depending get the sprint spec (145bhp) need to get some quotes but this is going to be hard without knowing exactly whats wrong in there...

 

Couple questions..

-I get the impression the twincam are known to "leak" like mine seems to of done now :( ? Is this their weak point?

-if the quality is poor what will happen? Just leak sooner and low power? Or worse..? What are the signs of bad quality engine work?

 

distributor wise all I known is on the bill they billed me for a new distributor cap costing £30 as I asked them to check over and sort the ignition out??

 

Thanks, piers.

 

Edited by - PSJ on 17 May 2011 08:06:58

[skeetsy]

Hi again,

 

Do you think that the car has been running a little worse after the work? (Particularly after the fitment of a new distributor cap)

 

I recall from experience that the type of distributor cap and plug leads can be pretty important to the running of a twincam.

 

Does the cap you have have push on HT leads or does it have leads which come out of the cap and are screwed in place? Either way the cap should really be the angled type where the leads come off the side rather than the top.

 

Because of the position of the distributor the push on HT lead type of distributor can cause some shorting of the spark to occur against the inlet manifold if the leads are squashed against it I've traced this through on a friends twincam escort years ago and we fixed the problem with a screw in lead cap plus good quality leads.

 

Also if you do have a vacuum advance (although unlikely as I think these were mainly for the American market) then it would be better to source a mechanical advance distributor, but don't forget to blank the hole in the inlet manifold otherwise you'll lean out one cylinder.

 

All the best

 

Richard

[kenny.]

Billy Bannister of Bannister Racing engines is your man. He's based in Preston and does all the work for Europa Engineering (Richard at Banks). He rebuilt a Twink I had a while back and seriously knows his stuff............top bloke and an old school engineer. He knows the twincam inside out.

 

 

[JACK FLASH]

Hi again,

 

Considering oil leaks I must say that my rebuilt engine does not leak but we took a lot of care when assembling the engine and we took the time. That is the advantage when you do it yourself.

 

The only problem so far is a leaky gearbox (again) but this must be due to the known problem of the oil seal where the cable comes out for the tacho.

 

The remarks concerning the ignition are absolutely correct. I use the "good" distributor (Lucas 23D4) with centrifugal advance and the ignition leads that screw in the cap with side exit of the leads. I do not use the Lucas coil but a real blue Bosch coil that the first owner fitted when the car was in Germany. Ignition timing is very important for the performance and the engine temperature.

 

You could also use an electronic ignition (maintenance free) but for a new distributor and suited coil you easily pay 200 - 250 GBP. There are several good quality ignition systems for a TC on the market.

 

You are right to stick with the Twin Cam but if you have the correct engine in the car it should already be a Sprint (Big Valve) specification with 126 BHP (quoted by CC in those days). This will become clear when you take the head off and measure the valves.

 

Good luck

 

Jack Flash

j.jackflash@hotmail.com

 

 

[PSJ]

When I get home I will check the distributor an check which one it is, infact I will take a picture of it so you guys can see exactly which one it is.

 

Yes it's 100% the big bore 126bhp version. (1598cc) My father found this out in the early 90's when the timing chain link snapped (vegantune had put it on the wrong way round!!) and had to remove the head etc. They struggled to get pistons and had to get them through Ferrari pistons so iv been told.

 

So should it have the "sprint" cams aswell or just bigger bore and pistons? As if the re-build needs to go ahead then I would want them in to give abit more grunt.

 

also when the car was in the garage I asked them to check the timing and they said it was 10degrees out ..but they didn't correct it as they said there wouldn't be much point of i was going to get it rebuilt, alot of work for little gains basically!?!?

 

Piers.

[PSJ]

ok so here are the pictures to try and help.

 

Fuel pump - Facet fast road fuel Pump soiled state. (with inline fuse etc)

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/227395_10150257888315931_694385930_9331312_6629369_n.jpg

 

now for the distributer (the original one) - it has a new cap on it which cost me £30.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225030_10150258890790931_694385930_9340974_7584065_n.jpg

 

leads coming out of it.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224206_10150258891690931_694385930_9340981_5173172_n.jpg

 

 

 

Additional info which may help???

the batt - only 12V as its out of a golf buggy, back when the Dry sump was fitted the batt had to be re-located and original one was too big. all other aftermarket ones were also too big back then so this was the only one which would fit. not sure if this will be anything to do with the problem!?

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/222199_10150258892680931_694385930_9341001_6768388_n.jpg

 

also on the bill it states..

-"Renew HT leads and plug ends and coil lead to copper core leads. (incorrect silicone one fitted)"

 

..oh, and is this natural on a twincam??

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230293_10150258889940931_694385930_9340967_7742256_n.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by - PSJ on 17 May 2011 21:20:46

[PSJ]

Went to visit jon (who was named atthe start of the thread), a guy Iv recently got to know who owns 2 elans which use the lotus twin cam. He reckons the engine is fine but defo not running 100% he thinks it is down to either ignition or fuel. So he has gave me a new coil pack to try out as he thinks mine may be goosed since it's the original one. So will clean sparkplugs plugs tommorrow and fit the new coil Pack and see what happens.

 

Fingers crossed!

 

 

[skeetsy]

Quoting PSJ: 

also when the car was in the garage I asked them to check the timing and they said it was 10degrees out ..but they didn't correct it as they said there wouldn't be much point of i was going to get it rebuilt, alot of work for little gains basically!?!?

Piers.

 

The photos of the distributor suggest that you have the correct cap (screwed in plug leads) and it seems to be a mechanical advance unit which is all good

 

10 degrees of ignition advance or retardation is quite a long way out and may explain some of the poor performance, if you own or have access to a timing strobe light it's pretty easy to get the timing sorted.

 

as a basic setting you should aim for around 14 degrees before top dead centre (the strobe will show you where you are at the moment if you connect it to number one lead and shine it at the bottom pulley) then you just slacken off the clamp which holds the distributor in position and turn the distributor body one way or the other until the mark on the pulley lines up with the appropriate timing mark on the front casing. Then re-tighten the clamp and the job's a good-un.

 

Hope this helps

 

Richard.

[elie boone]

Do you have a fuel pressure regulator ?

[JACK FLASH]

Hi again,

 

I am really happy to find an owner with exactly the same type of Twin Cam as in my car. You know, these 1,6 units based on the Kent engine built by Vegantune in those years are really something rare.

 

Concerning your pictures:

 

1. Elie is right, you should use a pressure regulator. I threw the electrical pump away - in fact I gave it to Elie - and went back to a new mechanical pump.

2. The distributor cap is the right one but the ignition timing is wrong. You can find the advance curve in the pink manual or I can look it up for you. Do a thorough check on the ignition.

3. The picture of the messy oily underside of the block made me remind of my engine before the rebuild. If the rebuild is done correctly and wisely and with enough patience and time, you' ll never see that again.

4. I also relocated the battery from the cellar of the car to the clasica position but to do that I removed the flat heater and made a battery tray in aluminium to fit on the position and screw holes of the heater. I had the advantage that I sit at the side of the exhaust, LHD car, and in that case you never need a heater!

5. The pistons in my engine are still the original Hepolites but we changed the piston rings and because it was difficult to find the correct rings, the grooves were changed to fit the standard Kent rings.

6. New pistons is very easy. Contact Burton and they supply blank pistons, used in a BDR. The recesses for the valves have to be machined.

 

When rebuilding my engine, I bought parts at Redline and Burton. They could supply everything and very important, a lot of advice.

 

I suggest that we stay in contact. This is an opportunity to exchange information and help each other.

 

Have a go to put the fuelling and ignition right and keep us informed how the engine is behaving. BTW, I really LOVE the sound of a Twin Cam going from 2000 to 7000 rpm.

 

Jack Flash

j.jackflash@hotmail.com