Shister66 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Hi All Does anyone know where I can purchase a re-conditioned live axle for Classic? Mine has finally given up the ghost!! cheers in advance Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Russell Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Stephen, is that a ford axle or an Ital/morris? what exactly has gone wrong? I have an Ital axled race car and until recently it was either the differential or the half shafts which let go! Q41 ACF Classic #98 My Race Videos Here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltec Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Talk to Mark at Jigsaw Racing, he should be able to help you out. VX 1600 Live Axle T440LKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shister66 Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 Hi Guys I have a rumbling noise coming from the Diff. I jacked the car up and let the car run in gear with the rear wheels off the ground. Listened across axle and definite clicking / knocking come from diff area. I am not too sure whether it is best to drop the axle out and get refurbished or replaced. One thing I noticed is that if I move one wheel around (manually) with the car in gear there is quite a bit of slack before the gear box takes up. and it is quite noisy. How easy is it to replace the half shafts etc? or is this something best done at a garage? cheers in advance Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shister66 Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 Apologies It is an Ital Axle. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I'll second Jigsaw if you need a new diff for the Ital axle Best off getting someone who knows what they're doing (and with a bloody big press) to do the work and inspect the bearings and halfshafts. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Maybe it is time to convert to Ford? Not sure if it is still available but there was one here. It would need to have the brackets welded on etc, but may be cheaper than an Ital refurb, this would give you enough cash left over for new ford hubs on the front. Jonathan ========================= My Flickr Gallery 92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Stealth model (Matt Black and Ali), rebuild completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Russell Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I imagine you'll find that you've worn through the case hardening due to wear of the crownwheel and pinion. If you remove and inspect the differential (moderately involved DIY task) you'll probably find that the wearing surfaces have some porosity and, since its knocking, you'll probably have some chipped/missing teeth! Having said that, usually when mine gets to this stage it screams lounder than the engine at anything over about 60mph. Pulling both halfshafts, disconnecting the propshaft and removing the diff will allow you to inspect everything that could be potentially causing your problem. I've done this three times in two years of ownership (track use) and I'm not a mechanic by any means. Those who race ital-axled cars in the grads club source rebuilt diffs from McMillan Motorsport in Hinkley or Road & Race in kent (I tend to use road and race as they're local). Never used Jigsaw but sounds like they're worth a look too. Q41 ACF Classic #98 My Race Videos Here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltec Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Jigsaw here did my screaming diff 18 months ago, when i got it back it was nearly silent *thumbup* Only slight problem for them was, Mark is a BIG lad so had to get one of his lads to do the road test, as he doesn't if in Sevens (much to his disappointment) VX 1600 Live Axle T440LKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'd seriously consider converting to a Ford axle. There will be the initial palaver changing mountings, hubs etc but you'll end up with a much stronger and stiffer axle which will need far less maintenance in the future. I'd also second getting and work done by a renowned specialist. 'Have you any idea what it's like to have the wind rushing through your hair!' (Quote:Sq Cdr the Lord Flashheart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Why does everyone think that the Ital axle is crap 🤔 It is fit for purpose ❗ Yes the Ford Axle is stronger, but it is considerably heavier (unsprung) and the cost is not inconsiderable to convert to a Ford Axle. Especially if you have to send the chassis back to Arch to get the transmission tunnel widened! IMHO unless you have silly horsepower or have changed to an engine with more torque the Ital is great. You just need to treat it with a little TLC (as you would with a Ford axle!). Give it lots of Oil (overfill). Use the best components - JIgsaw CRP, Quaiffe LSD, uprated halfshafts and shim the bearings. Just try comparing the cost of those components to an equivilenet specified Ford Axle 😳 Skip. (Let's hope I don't regret this post, when I next give my car some beans! 😬) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Skip, The transmission tunnel can easily be widened at the drivers hip with a suitable wooden former (a bit of 2x2) and a mallet. 10 minute job. RS2000 1/2 shafts are £15 - £30 each second hand and should take all the abuse you can throw at them, no shims are required. Crownwheel and pinion sets are around £250 with a lot of ratios to choose from. Possibility to convert to rear disc breaks if desired. Also Alloy Diff nose available to save a lot of weight. Wide choice of LSD units. Not to mention the stuff Steve Perks is doing at SPC for the axle. There are many positives for going to an English Axle. Stephen will have to make the decision and hopefully you will not have to :D Jonathan ========================= My Flickr Gallery 92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Stealth model (Matt Black and Ali), rebuild completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltec Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Jigsaw sorted my axle 18 months ago, when collecting the car from them I got chatting to Mark (the Boss). He told me that the Ital Axle can handle 200hp no problem, come to think of it doesn't someone on here run a 200 hp zetec with the ital axle? VX 1600 Live Axle T440LKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'm with Skip and Jigsaw, there are a lot of false hoods spread about the Ital which are mostly untrue, I know I've built enough of them. Yes the English axle is a very valid upgrade IF REQUIRED. As stated an Ital axle can be made to take HP close to 200 with the torque that entails (it is torque that brakes axles anyway) . To convert to an English axle and do it properly and reliably, last time I priced it up was £1K, if you start talking Ali nosed with LSD ETC from SPC you are talking £2.5K just for the axle without the chassis mods. The English axle still suffers from the same oil surge as the Ital with the same cure, overfill with oil and the bearings still move, they push the collar but it is more expensive to fix than the Ital (shimmimg), IE Quaife shafts and hubs are required. I have used both in competition and unless I was going for big torque I would stay with the Ital and save my money. Itals' are easier to rebuild and all the necessary parts are available, the one thing they do not really like is kerb jumping, the answer to that is keep off the kerbs (shaft and hub kits are now available to cure this but not cheap). Disc braking is also not an issue if you want to go down that route. You pay your money, you take your choice. But I know were I will spend my money. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Russell Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 as I'm sure you all know (think Jonboylaw mentioned it) you also need to factor in the cost of new front hubs to match the PCD of the ford axle, and new wheels (and probably tyres) while you're at it! Oh, and since the OP said Mine has finally given up the ghost!! one must presume he wasn't considering such a big, costly modification? Q41 ACF Classic #98 My Race Videos Here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shister66 Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 Thanks for the feedback. Fantastic. Ok, so my decision is to drop the complete axle from the car. Disassemble as best as I can (maybe with a little help from the local garage) and assess the damage. I am uncertain as to which side the "screaming" is coming from or if it is in fact the diff itself. It does sound like a bearing of some sorts in that is makes the most noise at above 3000 rpm or so. Difficult to tell on your own with the car jacked. Jigsaw look a great option as does SPC so have sent off a PM to discuss the options of sending via Courier etc. I am a little gutted to be honest as It is a standard VX1600 with only 11,000 genuine miles on the car. I fitted Toyo R888 tyres last year and this could be the culprit in term of generating torque. I will let you know how I get on so thanks again for all your input. A great car by the way and that is from someone with a 3.2 V6 TT in the garage :) Stephen Edited by - Shister66 on 14 Dec 2010 20:25:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Stephen, Sorry for the rant, from what you describe it is probably the CW&P but possibly bearings. If you have fitted 888's and are doing track work it is possible that the CW&P or bearings have suffered from oil surge rather than any torque/power issues, the axle needs to be significantly over filled in high G loadings, the racers had the oil filler raised to accommodate this. If you are interested I can mail you a report I put together of the knowledge I have gather over the years of building Itals. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Just to add to this, I had the CW&P replaced a couple of years ago when the whining got too much with a good OE Ital one from R&R - Brands GP and R888's destroyed it (oil surge, despite overfilling and a professional build) halfway through the day. 😔 Had a new Jigsaw CW&P fitted and the axle is completely silent (has a Quaife ATP in it as well) and (fingers crossed) has stayed that way 18 months later. I personally wouldn't consider an original Ital component for the CW&P if going on track. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Pee Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Having read all the above I think my SPARE Caterham modified Ital axle (3.9) with about 500 miles on the clock must be worth more money now. The Ital in the car has done 23K miles with 138BHP and no noise and no drive shafts replaced. I was warned early on years ago that v soft tyres knacker drive shafts pretty quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 As mentioned previously by someone, I run 210BHP Zetec with an Ital axle and LSD. Works perfectly 😬 I really can't fault it. However, I do have a ford axle waiting should I ever need it. I just hope I don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shister66 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi All I have just taken the Axle completely out of the car and dropped it to local Gear re-furbishment Engineers. Hopefully have a verdict real soon. I will try to keep you posted on the works needed - likely causes and costs etc. Best Regards Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If you don't have it, go for the LSD upgrade! Big improvement 😬 See here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Stephen YHM - sorry if it is too little/too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Im going to phil at road & race for an LSD to be fitted to my ital,should be good for more power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Zetec, I've got a Quaif LSD in my Ford live axle. With 168 lb ft of grunt from the Zetec it makes all the difference 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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