The Official Tech Forum Thread

[Simon.Rogers1]

Its that time of year again.

 

This is the thread that I will use to form the agenda for the forum after the awards lunch in a couple of weeks time.

 

I have started the list off below.

 

1. Zetec conversions to be allowed into Class 2 and 3 - details to be discussed at forum.

2. 2,3 and 4 way dampers to be prohibited from class 4 and below.

3. Tweak to the overall championship scores calculation and eligibility.

4. Sigma engine mapping upgrade for Class .

5.I would like to see clarification of the need for seat belts and seat as some in class 5 who compete in other championships have not run with them this year. (The way I see it is that other events were not running correctly- We are correct - you could have protested).

6. The need for an operational reverse gear as the MSA has now changed there rules and do not require one for equivanlant classes in other events. (Again this is clear in the Blue Book - it is a requirement in road going but was to be relaxed for Mod Prod (6) but the recent MSA Magazine I think changes again to say Mod Prod now requires a reverse box)

7.Clarify regs for class 4 regarding sequential boxes only being allowed for BEC (Fireblade)

 

 

Please add your topic below. I "may" then add it to this list or I might not!

 

 

 

Competition Sec

Management Team Member

 

If in doubt.......Flat out!

 

 

Edited by - Simon.Rogers on 1 Nov 2010 19:32:02

[Mr Happy]

ACB10's

Nitros

Neon light

Spoilers

No Professional team eg 7 tips racing

Limited number of sets of Tyres per season

No altered aerodynamics

No non standard parts

 

 

[Mark Durrant]

Minimum height for drivers

Minimum weight for drivers 😳

 

 

[Mr Happy]

Muppit: min IQ 😬

[Mike Guest]

A hill climb champoinship(HCC), sprint champoinship(SC) and an overall champoinship

[robmar]

to get back to serious posts 😬

 

1. I would like to see clarification of the need for seat belts and seat as some in class 5 who compete in other championships have not run with them this year.

2. The need for an operational reverse gear as the MSA has now changed there rules and do not require one for equivanlant classes in other events.

3. sensible discussion about ACB10's

 

Rob

[Simon.Rogers1]

Sensible Discussion

 

Here You Go

 

Point 3 above - NO!

 

Competition Sec

Management Team Member

 

If in doubt.......Flat out!

 

[Mark Durrant]

Clarify regs for class 4 regarding sequential boxes only being allowed for BEC (Fireblade)

 

Mark D

[Chris101]

Sequential boxes in Class 4 😬 😬 😬

 

If only everything in life was as simple as a 7!!

[Blue-Lines]

Hi all

 

How many events do people tend to get from a set of super soft Kumho's or equivalent? I noted that a few people were running Kumho’s that were a little on the bald side by the end of the season! Now I personally don’t have a problem with this as you don’t want to chuck tyres out with useful life left in them but at the same time It could be argued that as these are no longer road legal you don’t comply with the regs for class 4 & 5?

 

...I am trying to convince myself that I need some "supersofts"

 

Martyn

 

 

Edited by - Blue-Lines on 1 Nov 2010 19:01:42

[Richard Price]

Martyn,

How many events do people tend to get from a set of super soft Kumho's or equivalent?

I've done nine events this year, and my son Tom has shared the car on seven of those.

After our first event (Llandow), I was concerned that the front left would not last the day, let alone the season.

However, having measured the tread depths, I'm now confident this first set will last us well into next year.

 

 

[NoLimits]

My rears have done 20 events. Fronts did a few more and are still going.

 

So really the answer is 2 seasons ish!

 

www.7tips.co.uk - for all 7 related parts and upgrades.

[robmar]

with reference

 

#5 - seat belts + seat , it was more for those in our championship who ran without this year rather than other competitions.

#6 - you are probably right...

 

rob

 

 

[Blue-Lines]

...not as bad as I thought then, best get saving!

[mikes]

But I wonder how long Avon ZZRs will last

Rodney showed they were pretty good out of the box (if you see what I mean!!) well, off the start line anyway, but will they last.....

Looks like we might need 2 sets for the season...

Mike

[Charlies Angel]

'Looks like we might need 2 sets for the season...'

 

Sweetie, they are so last year!

 

Having fun with Custard

[skydragon]

more info ref ZZR's

 

I spoke with Avon Motorsport today who said that they are still making changes to the ZZR tyre construction and productionising (sp) the R13 ZZR product.

 

The person I spoke with said the R13 ZZR tyres produced to date are only in a hard compound and that Avon are currently working on a soft compound ZZR r13 which should be available next spring, so that Avon can offer both a soft and a hard compound ZZR R13. This must mean that the ZZR tyres that CC have for sale are hard compound (good for road and track, perhaps not ideal for sprint/hillclimb compared to a soft version of the same tyre?).

 

He suggested calling back in February, to check availability and part Nos for the soft compound version of ZZR

 

I think I might have to invest in a set to disguise any lack of talent 😬

[robmar]

i think the person at Avon either doesn't know or isn't telling you the truth as a number of sets of soft compound ZZRs have been used this year by various people for competition

 

but i guess only the hards as you say are availble from caterham

 

rob

 

Edited by - robmar on 3 Nov 2010 13:28:36

[skydragon]

Do you know the reference numbers/part Nos for soft and hard ZZR compounds?

 

Seems a bit wierd he would say the tyre is still being developed and soft yet to be released..?

[robmar]

nope sorry

 

i am guessing they might have released a limited set of soft tyres to get feedback before going into full production...

[skydragon]

Ok, spoke again with them... and another source.

 

A60 is the 'hard' compound, slightly softer than a CR500

 

A24 is the soft compound.

 

I now understand that Avon did produce a limited production run of the A24 soft tyres in 2010 and that they are now making changes to their manufacturing to enable new A24 soft ZZR to be available in spring 2011.

 

...I just managed to get a set of new ZZR A24 soft, from the first production run

 

Simon - sorry for hijacking your thread

 

Edited by - skydragon on 3 Nov 2010 14:10:27

[Chris101]

 

Could I propose that we have a discussion about tyres

 

The current suggestion seems to be that classes 3 to 5 may well need two sets of tyres i.e. Kumho and ZZR's - which will then become four sets because we need a soft sprinting set and a harder track day set - that means quite a considerable outlay.

 

This seems to go against the over riding principal that the club championship should be affordable by all participants. If that is a strong principal then we should discuss limiting tyre choice. Could we possibly restrict tyres to one manufacturer, might even open the door to some form of limited sponsorship.

 

Certainly the first time I competed against ZZR's, whilst being on my trusty well worn Kuhmo's, it saw Rodney giving me a good run for my money. 😬

 

I suppose I feel able to raise this question on the basis that should we all move in to a full on tyre war, we can probably afford to join in - just means that money may well be the deciding factor rather than pure driver skill.

 

Well thats the pebble well and truly thrown in to the pond 😬 😬 😬

 

Head now going firmly below the parapet

 

C

 

If only everything in life was as simple as a 7!!

[Stuart Miller 7]

All - how I see it.

 

I would agree in principal that a "control" tyre would keep the costs down and I for one would be happy to have a "control" tyre, whether it be the Kumho or the Avon. We could even go further and stipulate that tyres should be run for a minimum of say, 12 events or 2 sets per season. The problem with controlling consumables in the rules, whether they be tyres for your car or sails for your boat, is that where there is a rule, there is always a way around it.

 

I competed at international level for many years in sailing, including classes where these consumables were controlled. I can assure you that I never once turned up at a European or World Championship without a brand new set of sails, no matter what the limitations were in the rules!

 

Back to our championships:

Pro's are as follows - lower cost (if you don't bend the rule) - level playing field.

Con's are as follows - a control tyre would probably exclude some people from competing especially as an "off the shelf" caterham nowadays will probably come with either ZZR's of CR500's fitted as standard. As I understand it, the championship structure is set up so that anybody with a caterham can turn up and be competetive in one of the classes, 1 to 5. To have a "control" tyre would make the championships less inclusive. I was not the only one running ZZR's in class 4 at Anglesey.

 

My own reasons for running with the ZZR's were mainly financial. I have 16 wheels sat in the garage but only 2 fronts that are fitted with the Kumho 215. If I run with the ZZR, then I can use the 2 sets of CR500's I have, the ZZR and slicks and everything is interchangeable and suspension set up is the same. Staying with the Kumho set up, means I have to buy a set of hard compound in addition to the soft and spend another £200 with Barnby to have wider rims and skip a set of CR500's.

 

As it is, I am still not convinced the ZZR is the way forward (and as such have blown my financial reasoning). I prefer the way the car drives on the Kumho - more progressive and predictable. At this stage I'll be running with both set ups for next year as my Kumho's have some life left in them.

 

Food for thought............ and please excuse the rambling post.

 

Stuart

 

P.S. I await advice from the management on whether I have to enter under another name depending on what tyres I'm running 😬

 

 

 

 

[skydragon]

Bearing in mind the regs are based around MSA list 1a and list 1b tyres, this fits in with other uk motorsport competitions and means that the tyres a driver selects can be used and competitive in both L7c and 3rd party events ( for those who also compete outside the L7C championship ).

 

I say leave the tyres choice as per the MSA regs.

 

I've just bought a set of zzr's and don't want to have to buy another set of kumhos.

 

For those who've already invested time/money in getting several sets of kumhos and learnt how to get the best out of them, it's their choice whether to try out a new tyre. Some competitors already turn up with several sets of wheels/ tyres, some don't as they don't want to make the investment, so I don't see this changing anything and we certainly shouldn't be looking at this from a viewpoint of 'protecting' existing kumho users/owners.

 

If a new ruling had to be made and the objective was to stop people turning up with umpteen sets of wheels/tyres, there's any easy solution.... Make the L7C regs so that a competitor can use any single type of tyre from list 1a or list 1b...their choice, nominated at the start of the season with their entry and no change allowed that year.

 

To repeat though I'd be against any changes. Fwiw, I think the best drivers will still win and whatever tyres come onto the Market the situation will eventually equalise itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Headmaster]

Rodders!!!!!

 

Where are you Rodders!