X430 - my SC'd 2.3 Duratec in a CSR chassis

[Se7en]

A few updates for those interested:

 

Had the car on scales for corner weighting. There is a prize for the nearest guess in kg?

 

Had to move the SC oil tank because we were concerned over the height in relation to the charger itself. Not easy to find a good place but Jeff had a idea to use the gearbox breather/catch tank on the bulkhead. My engine oil breather/catch tank is larger enough for both engine and box and has a spare fitting - I must have thought about this sub consciously!! We needed more "traction" fluid for the SC system but there aint much stock of this in the UK. It cost nearly £100 to get a bottle on next day delivery.

 

My new dump valve seems to work ok but not before it knocked Jeff's glasses off as it flew across the garage. That clamp needs to be tight. It is also a bit noisy.

 

The radiator is all modified and the ss pipes look really good. The engine now fires on the button and runs well. I sat in it for the first time on Sat and revved it up. Throttle feels nice as does the clutch. That small flywheel sure makes it responsive.

 

We have had a nightmare getting the Omex to talk to the Race Technology dash via the serial link. The idea is that you plug in this link and all the readings from the ECU are displayed on the dash. It turns out that we need to change some settings in the ECU using MAP3000 but we cannot find a lead that will connect to a the lap top! Just ordered one today so will try again. Because we want to try the car out, we wired in the engine sensors to the dash analogue inputs. The pressures (oil & fuel) seem about right but the temps (oil & water) are reading -2300 deg C!! I bought calibrated sensors from RT so I would not have these problems. I think the voltage is wrong on the sensors so we will have to have that checked out. Very frustrating not being able to try it out. I have to get it on a track this year........

[Jason Plato]

my weight guess is 549kg with quarter tank of fuel and all fluids

 

Edited by - Dave J on 1 Nov 2010 21:12:07

[Racing Snake]

537 kg

 

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Mad Hatter The Dura Mentalist 😬 Carl @ Penn 7's Caution - May Contain Nuts !

[Markiebabes]

555kg 😬

 

Mark

 

Penn7's area Stuff

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^{_{R400 pure fun ( more so with Aero fitted ) Webshots here}}

[Racing Snake]

Thought that was the weight of the carp in your boot

 

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Mad Hatter The Dura Mentalist 😬 Carl @ Penn 7's Caution - May Contain Nuts !

[Se7en]

Weight is actually nearer 580kg with all fluids, 1/2 tank fuel (approx) etc etc.There are lots of added bits on the car that are surprisingly heavy and all add up. eg Rotrex unit, bracket, intercooler, oil & tank, oil coolers. And my nose cone weighs a ton! Eventually, I will hve a buck taken off it and make a light one. What does a stock CSR weigh with fluids?

[Jason Plato]

545/ 555kg I believe

[Se7en]

So, I guess I have added a full cage, chassis bits, SC bits, lots of rads etc for about 30kg over stock. I reckon I could take 10-15kg out of the nose if I re-made it......

[Se7en]

And I forgot the Quaife box.......

 

Edited by - Se7en on 2 Nov 2010 09:59:20

[Markiebabes]

Carl

Only when laden with a passenger

 

Mark

 

Penn7's area Stuff

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^{_{R400 pure fun ( more so with Aero fitted ) Webshots here}}

[TobyCoulson]

Only just read this thread all the way through. What a remarkable piece of machinery[.

Well done

*thumbup*

[Se7en]

Only just read this thread all the way through. What a remarkable piece of machinery[.

Well done

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Thank you kindly.

 

We sorted the sensor issue last night about 9pm (or Jeff did - big thanks). It was indeed a base voltage problem. So we now have the vital readings on the dash. Need to put the scuttle back on etc and change the track rods over 😳 and off we go. I am determined to drive this thing at the weekend..........weather permitting.

 

[Se7en]

Well, I picked up the car from HWR in the rain late on Friday night. Checked a couple of things when I got home on the trailer. Then it was off to Elvington early Sat for a trial run........ 😬

 

Things didn't go so well when I could not start the damn thing. It just kept flooding. Changed the plugs and added some booster cables and she fired up eventually. In the process, my bonnet fell over and is all scratched and bent in places. I couldn't believe it. 😔 It gets worse.........

 

Then came the noise test. It came in about 99 - 100db which is higher than I expected. As it waas a strict 98db day, that was pretty much it. They would not even give me a single lap.

 

I bought the biggest and longest Raceco titanium silencer possible and it is brand new so I expected a quieter exhaust. I am going to need to add extra packing or a different material in there as I want to be able to do 98db days. Anyone got any experience or advice here??

 

I also have a loud blow off valve (to atmos) because the first one could not cope with closed throttles at 6,000rpm +. It is opening and closing constantly when held at any revs for a static noise test. I will need to buy another valve (but recirculating type) and route the exit low in the engine bay or back into the inlet to the SC. I originally did not want to do this because it adds hot air back into the inlet.

 

Edited by - Se7en on 7 Nov 2010 21:37:23

[Racing Snake]

Cant you exit the blow off valve into the g/box tunnel ?

You might have to look at a double silencer set up for track

I know Linds at SevenSpeed has a tricky additional silencer when he goes to places like Bedford, might be worth a chat

 

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Mad Hatter The Dura Mentalist 😬 Carl @ Penn 7's Caution - May Contain Nuts !

[AMMO]

Se7en

 

If it is any consolation I doubt that there are any big horsepower Duratecs that can get on 98 dB days.

 

Rather than change the packing material you should buy yourself a noise meter and experiment with the amount of material used. Which is what I used to do when we were racing bikes.

 

We went through several different types of material before opting for the high temperature E-Glass we currently use. With the amount of power you have I would suggest that you check and re-pack regularly especially after high speed runs after dyno sessions and continued high rpm use at the track.

 

Was the silencer used for mapping? Was it re-packed after the dyno session? Did you take any packing material to the track so you could attempt to re-pack it there and then?

 

With the unprecedented amount of power you have it is likely that there will be minor problems that will need to be addressed during the initial shakedown.

 

If you have anything you would like to discuss please feel free to give me a call.

 

Edited to say that when we were doing the initial development work on the silencers about ten years ago that we found that sometimes during static testing the induction systems made as much as 10 dB more than the exhaust. I don't know if your induction system is contributing to the overall noise. What we did was cover up the bonnet with several heavy blankets to isolate the induction noise from the exhaust noise and find out where the noise was actually coming from. Hope this helps.

 

Ammo

Raceco.com

 

Edited by - AMMO on 8 Nov 2010 08:57:22

[metal mickey]

'I also have a loud blow off valve (to atmos) because the first one could not cope with closed throttles at 6,000rpm +. It is opening and closing constantly when held at any revs for a static noise test. I will need to buy another valve (but recirculating type) and route the exit low in the engine bay or back into the inlet to the SC. I originally did not want to do this because it adds hot air back into the inlet.'

 

I would suggest this needs sorting before accurate noise tests can be conducted to assess how effective the exhaust system is. Obviously the air dumping is a noisy process and is contributing to the noise reading. Also how noisy is the super charger itself ? Do you have any pics of the inlet/exhaust system and the dump valve position ?

[dannylt]

Ammo - surely the inlet is quiet on this car since it goes through the supercharger. Turbos generally have quite a strong silencing effect, so I presume it will be the same for the inlet. I think two silencers will be required!

[Se7en]

Cant you exit the blow off valve into the g/box tunnel ?

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The current valve outlet is not a pipe, it is a series of slots around the outside. Because of this, it flows very well. I have just ordered another Forge valve that is a recirc type but higher flow than a stock Bosch valve. I can then pipe it into the tunnel or even back into the inlet if I have to. The original valve and the position can be seen here. The exhaust can be seen in an early build pic here.

 

As for the silencer, it has never been used on any dyno or testing so it should not have lost any packing. My engine was run in and mapped on a bench dyno with their exhaust. I am very happy with my Raceco silencer and I am not suggesting that is to blame in any way. I just hoped I would get to 98db with my set up.

 

When you walk around the car when it is running, you can clearly hear the different sounds from the exhaust, engine and the blow off valve. The noise test mike was pointing right at the exhaust though. I really didn't want to have to run an add on silencer for these 98db days but I might have a look at what Linds has done in any case. Any pics handy?

 

I don't know if I have an induction noise issue. There certainly is no gargle noise like you would normally get with individual bodies sucking from the atmosphere. I went to great lengths to get a cast inlet plenum and it should all be silenced by the SC itself. There will be some sort of induction noise from the SC inlet but I can't hear it above the other noises at present. The Rotrex charger is almost silent - one of it's many strong points. There can be noise created from the drive belt system if it is not well designed but I think I got this spot on.

 

Ammo's suggestion of doing some scientific testing is the right one. I got the iphone db meter App (don't laugh) to try and gauge the general noise level after any changes I make. Any other way of getting hold of a meter without spending a fortune?? I will try the new valve first and go from there.

 

Good job they don't check with the clutch engaged because the Quaife noise is something else again. I guess that will become an issue on the drive by.......

 

Thanks for all your input.

[metal mickey]

Is it possible to shroud the dump valve or maybe have it exit on the other side of the car? What about having it dump into a larger canister to act as a silencer itself?

[Se7en]

Some updates folks:

 

I fitted a new (4th !) dump valve from Forge and a 1m length of tubing which exhausts right down behind the oil tank. It is only really audible now at max rev throttle closure situations but it is still much quieter than the previous valve and seems to flow well enough. We checked the sound level again and we are still showing 100db or thereabouts and it is all exhaust. We have a cunning plan to try out later.......

 

Spent a day doing various other bits that needed finishing and bleeding brakes (again), then we bolted on some 13" road wheels/tires and went for a Blat... 😬

 

Obviously, I was warming things up, bedding brakes, checking everything out etc etc but your right foot can't help but prod...... The torque of this thing is silly. On a cold, dry day on CR500's, grip is just not there until the higher gears. The particular gear you select seems almost irrelevant. 1st gear is nice and long but I had forgotten how close the next 5 are. I will need to think about a longer final drive next year. Anyone know what the stock CSR260 has? What options are there for longer drive?

 

Edited by - Se7en on 14 Nov 2010 10:12:37

[mic]

3.38 for a CSR

 

[Se7en]

3.38 - really? Don't think you can get longer than that can you?

[tbird]

Hanns Per runs a 3.14 diff on his CSR here

 

Tim

 

CSR 200 Aztec and Black

[Racing Snake]

Any more update pictures for tech talk ?

[Se7en]

Quoting Mad Hatter: 

Any more update pictures for tech talk ?

As I said in the marathon YOB thread, just finishing off a few bits (quite a few really) but the main work this week is trying to fit 9th generation (!) SC brackets in a very tight engine bay. My knuckles are knackered.

 

Also got my new (3rd) bonnet which I now need to painstakingly cut for exhaust hole, inlet plenum clearance and 3rd row of vents in the middle. I might use my old (slightly bent) bonnet as a foam lined, noise insulated one for ststic noise tests . Might also look to line the side panels with something lightweight and fireproof (!). There is definitely a lot of noise from the engine bay - not supercharger whine or belt noise or even induction. It seems to be just mechanical noise. I do have a flat floor I made from an ex LeMans Porsche floor but was a bit worried about heat in the engine bay.

 

Will try and grab some pics of progress if there is interest.

 

Cheers.