k-series problems

[Ian Hayward]

Still having a problem with my K-series 1600 Superlight (standard Mems EU2 ECU), It appears to starts OK from cold but when warmed up seems to miss/cut and doesn't want to start. The cut is instant, rev counter drops to zero, sometime picks up again, sometimes stalls. It's a definite on/off, not a splutter or cough, when it won't start there is a smell of fuel so I'm assuming its electrical not fuel.

 

Have now changed the coil, crank sensor, HT leads, distributor cap and rotor arm, have checked the wiring and cleaned some corroded pins in the grey multiplug and the coil connectors.

 

Not sure where to go next, could it be an ecu fault or is it more likely to be wiring?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[Roger Ford]

Plugs?

[skydragon]

intermittent 12v supply to MEMS?

[Ian Hayward]

Because It's a complete cut rather than a misfire, I was concentrating on common parts of the ignition system rather than the individual HT leads/spark plugs. I have already changed the leads, but can get a set of plugs to try.

 

I have traced the 12V supply to the mems, through the fuse box, to the spade connector in the loom (thick purple wire to brown/grey), This them appears to feed both pins 6 & 7 on the MFRU, So I assume there must be a joint in the loom somewhere. Does the ECU get its power via the MFRU or through another joint in the loom?

 

 

[Wrightpayne]

Mine had a dodgey connection (crimped) burried in the loom which went from the cut off switch to the fuel pump - green yellow iirc

 

ian

[rj]

Ian,

 

 

drop me a blatmail if you want a copy of the engine wiring diagram for an EU2...

[Johnty Lyons]

agree with loose connection to ECU

Purple wire with spade near heater above g/box

[Ian Hayward]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm assuming it's more likely to be an issue on the ignition/ecu side rather than fuel pump as it's such an instant cut (rev counter instantly drops).

 

I have cleaned the spade connector between the purple power feed and the engine loom as it was corroded. I guess there must be another joint in the engine power loom (brown/grey cable) after this point as it appears top feed power to two separate pins on the MFRU, I will have to start stripping the loom back and see what I can find.

 

RJ YHBM

[rj]

YHM back.

[Ian Hayward]

Finally had a couple of days to look at this properly.

 

It now seems very reluctant to even start, I have checked through all the power/earth connections I can find, with no obvious problems.

 

I have checked the crank sensor output on an oscilloscope and it appears fine. I have also fitted LED's to the ECU coil and injector triggers. From looking at these I can see that when the engine is cranking, the injectors are firing but the coil is not.

 

I have another standard 1.6 ECU, but no immobiliser/fob, when I connect this the coil/injectors are triggered properly and the engine starts, but cuts out (injectors stop firing) after a couple of seconds, which I'm assuming is the immobiliser cutting in as no matched 5AS immobiliser is present.

 

From this the only conclusion I can come to is an ECU fault? Is there anything else worth checking?

 

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[rj]

What happens if you reconnect the old ECU?

 

If you have a loose connection in your loom you may have wiggled enough with the loom to reconnect the broken connection...

[Ian Hayward]

I have swapped ECU's several times and can reliably repeat the symptoms.

 

I'm testing the output at the ECU itself, so it appears that it is not even trying to fire the coil, but as the injectors are working it must have the right signal from the CPS.

 

 

Ian

 

 

[LazerBrain]

Ian - I have a 1.6SS MEMS EU2 with 5AS and plippers you could borrow to test your theory. I'm near M4 J10.

 

cheers,

 

Darren.

[Ian Hayward]

Darren, thanks for the offer, I have sent you a Blatmail.

[shn7]

Have you checked the connections to the back of the ignition switch?

 

Do you have an FIA Cut out switch - if so try bypassing it.

 

Steve.

Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear who recommends

Puddle Pet Care

[john milner]

IACV stuck open? Very much a guess but it sounds similar to what happens when it's stuck closed with a cold engine.

[jradley]

Given that the engine will run on the spare ECU and not the original is pretty much a 99.99% confiramtion the fault is with the ECU.

 

The behaviour of the spare ECU allowing the engine to run for a few seconds and then cutting out with no imobiliser is also exactly as expected (see this thread for similar experience.

 

I'm not sure what your options are for getting the spare ECU re-programmed to not require the 5AS input. There is nothing you can do personally, but I think it might just be possible for someone with appropriate gubbins to re-program it to either not need a 5AS or match it to your old 5AS. I'm not sure though and if you find anyone local that can do this I'd be interested to know.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Ian Hayward]

Just to update this thread, I borrowed Darren's spare Supersport ECU with immobiliser and fob's yesterday, connected it up and the car started straight away.

 

I took the car for a long run today and it ran perfectly, with no cutting out or hesitation at all. So at last after 2 months messing about I have found the fault, I just need to source a replacement ECU or Emerald now.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help and advise, and thanks again Darren for the loan of the ECU.

 

 

Ian

[Graham Perry]

Is there any way you can open up the ECU to look for any dry joints ? The fact that it does it when warm might suggest that something inside the ECU changes once it warms up. A dry joint on a circuit board can do this and can be resoldered relatively easily by someone who knows what they are doing.

[tweeky]

any good ? or here too

 

Tweeky

 

to infirmity.................... and beyond

 

Edited by - tweeky on 29 Aug 2010 23:24:42

[Ian Hayward]

Thanks for the link's Tweeky, unfortunately the Supersport ECU is a Rover ECU loaded with a different 'Caterham' map. So although the engine will run on a normal rover ECU it doesn't have the same rev limit, change light etc.

 

I have already opened up the ECU while I've been working on the problem. It's not the easiest of jobs as the thin ali cover is sealed in place, the problem is that the PCB is encapsulated in some sort of rubbery material. There are no obvious dry joint's, but it appears that the PCB and the encapsulation may have started to react, as can be seen in there pictures here. The standard Rover ECU that works fine does not show any of these discoloured areas or white spots.

 

I know that my ECU also has an issue where it fails to drop out the main relay when the ignition is switched off, causing the battery to drain. So with at least two faults I'm not sure it is even worth trying to get repaired.

 

Ian

 

[Simon Ephithite]

ian have just changed my ECU2 to emerald ready for jenveys, make me an offer and its yours off a 1.8 supersport.

[mikes]

If it is any help - I have used these people to check if there was a fault on my EU3 ecu

http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/index.html

In my case I had a constant drain that may have been an ecu fault - they checked it and said it was OK. So either the problem was elsewhere or I wasted £35. Still don't know as I have now changed to Emerald.

Mike

[Ian Hayward]

Thanks for the link Mike. As I know there are at least two fault's I'm not sure I want to go down the repair route on a 13 year old ECU.

 

Simon, the part number on mine is MKC104151, I'm guessing that the 1.8 will be a different ECU?

 

I have now posted a wanted add for EU2 SS ECU/5AS/fob's or Emerald.

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[Simon Ephithite]

part no MKC104152 somebody should know if it works?