K-Series Reliability & HGF Precautions

[Mort]

For those of you that missed my introduction, I'm back in the fold after an absence of 13 years, having previously owned a 1700 Super Sprint. I've put a deposit on a 1.4 K-Series (EU3) Classic, and have been reading everything that I can about the K-Series Engines, including a poll on this forum on the subject from a few years back .............. Hmmmmmmm - are they REALLY as bad as their reputation, or is it more a case of people only post when they have a problem?

 

The reasons that I chose a 1.4K are still as valid as they ever were, and I'm not having second thoughts, but I would appreciate a balanced view on this - particularly from anyone who has a professional involvement with the K-Series engines, as I want to enter into ownership with my eyes fully open.

 

So, my questions are as follows:-

 

1) Is this primarily a problem with older engines, or is the EU3 equally problematic?

 

2) Should HGF occur, is there a modified gasket that has been produced to address the problem?

 

3) I'm in the habit of ensuring that the engine of any vehicle that I'm driving is up to full operating temperature before I put my foot down. I also carry out regular under-bonnet checks for early signs of problems (in my 1700 SS I would have a visual check, including fluid levels etc, every day before using it). Are there other precautions that I should be taking in a K-Series Seven?

 

4) Are there preventative modifications available to decrease the chances of HGF?

 

5) Am I'm being over sensitive? I'd really appreciate any positive feedback that anyone can give about the K-Series Sevens.

 

Apologies for the length of this post. More questions to follow, no doubt.

 

Edit: It's just occurred to me that I should mention that I am buying my Seven from Caterham, and they will be carrying out a service and PDI before I pick it up, so I would expect them to identify any existing problems. It is also low mileage (2K).

 

Nick

 

It's life Jim, but not as WE know it!

 

Edited by - Mort on 10 Jul 2010 17:11:46

[CageyH]

I elieve the problems occur on early models, with plastic head dowels, and a bad design of gasket. The issue should be sorted in later EU3 models.

 

Only dead fish go with the flow....!

[The Outcast]

1) Is this primarily a problem with older engines, or is the EU3 equally problematic?

 

No but even later EU2 whee OK

 

2) Should HGF occur, is there a modified gasket that has been produced to address the problem?

 

Yes there is a new gasket But I wouldn't change it until you have to

 

3) I'm in the habit of ensuring that the engine of any vehicle that I'm driving is up to full operating temperature before I put my foot down. I also carry out regular under-bonnet checks for early signs of problems (in my 1700 SS I would have a visual check, including fluid levels etc, every day before using it). Are there other precautions that I should be taking in a K-Series Seven?

 

Check for leaks in cooling system particularly near club foot /head interface

 

Leaks must be found and Coolant replaced [not with water] also all air removed

 

4) Are there preventative modifications available to decrease the chances of HGF?

Deck the block and improve liner heights also replace crap plastic head dowels with steel [they will be supplied with any new gasket]

 

5) Am I'm being over sensitive? I'd really appreciate any positive feedback that anyone can give about the K-Series Sevens.

 

Not really BUT I've owned a K for over a decade with NO HGF

[Roger Ford]

I think the risk of HGF is vastly overestimated. In the Caterham Graduates we must have 70 K-Series race cars, and I can only recall one HGF in the six years I've been racing with them. These cars are obviously stressed much more than typical road cars, I wonder if HGF might be more related to extended lack of use than heavy use.

[Bumble]

What's puzzling me is why there are so many HGFs on Elises, but there seem to be very few on 7's. Is this something to do with cooling at all? I've just bought a 1.6 K series - !

All I did was make sure the engine was well attended to, and that previous owner had one of those attitudes/frames of mind that they let the whole system warm up before going for it.

 

 

[Johnty Lyons]

Thermal shock in Elise a cooling system difference No Comparison

[Gridgway]

EU3 HG failed twice in my Rover 25. Once after 15k miles, thence 58k miles. When it blew first time, we stuck a new head on (courtesy of Oily), but realised that the liner heights were not fantastic.

 

So if you have good liner heights, metal dowels and no cooling problems then you will probably last a long time. If you have a hose go or a cap go and overheat, you increase the risk on an otherwise good motor.

 

R25 now has a new engine in! Let's see how long it lasts.

 

Graham

[Mort]

Many thanks for the replies so far. Any other feedback / experiences gratefully received.

 

Nick

[Badger Bill]

Picked up on the rumour that something in the thermostat is pressure sensitive, so if you do rev 'em a little bit some coolant is pushed past it, meaning that the stuff in the rad is warmed slightly too, reducing the thermal shock bit. So better to drive off and warm it up on the move, rather than leave it warming up whilst you finish closing the garage, fiddling with belts, putting on mascara/lipstick, etc.

 

MAV put my donk back together after it had been soundly neglected by it former owner, replaced the plastic dowels, putting on a new land rover gasket and head bolts, etc, replaced 'stat with an 82Deg item, and it did not miss a beat for the next 10k miles, no need for a coolant top-up or anything, and it was never warmed up on the drive.

 

Don't know if anyone has an opinion on the above, but it worked for me.

 

BB

[Roger Ford]

Race cars don't run thermostats. Wonder if this could have anything to do with the lack of problems we've seen?

[Mort]

Interesting about the thermostat - if HGF is largely due to thermal shock then I guess having no thermostat would have a dramatic effect.

 

I tend to drive off and keep to low revs Bill, rather than let it sit idling on the drive - something that my Father drummed into me when I was a lad. I don't tend to bother with mascara or lipstick myself when going for a blat - but I'm glad to see that you're raising the standards for Seven owners everywhere. 😬

 

I was under the impression that the EU1 had metal dowels, the EU2 went over to plastic, and the EU3 went back to metal again. Have I misunderstood somewhere along the line?

 

It's life Jim, but not as WE know it!

[Badger Bill]

Bad form on the war paint. I tend to go for the American Football style twin stripes on the cheeks with a KISS inspired eye star on the left. Although you can't see the stripes when I sit down...

 

Back to the point, my old donk (I no longer have the car) was an ex-race 1.4 SuperSport which had no stat when I bought it and it's head was definitely goosed, so the no-stat theory might be a misnomer.

 

BB

[Rich N]

seems likely.. my car (1.8k) wouldn't reach temperature on a cold day (on the road) if it didn't have a stat.. that would be way worse for it.

 

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