Quaife seq. 6speed box

[Marius]

After having driven the sequential MOG-race-7 last weekend, I´m considering to upgrade to the sequential Quaife box next winter. Some of you have already gone this route, so what´s your opinion on the choices ?

 

a) It´s definitly going to be a 6speeder, wether 5th 1:1 oder 6th 1:1. I´ve got the choice between two diffs (3.92 & 4.11, last one being fitted currently). Your suggestion ?

 

b) Is the alloy-housing worth the extra-money ? How much weight do I save ? Is the alloy-housing more prone to crack ?

 

c) Does the gear-indicator-display work properly ?

 

d) can the box be upgraded to flat-out-shifts (switch on box for ECU) ?

 

e) where will I get the best price for the box ? I´m currently considering SPC & RRT.

 

Thanks for your advise.

 

Marius

[Stijn LUYCK 1]

Marius, you should stop hillclimbing ... it is not good for your wallet!

[gee_fin]

Marius, if you're seriously interested I have one for sale now, contact me offline for further info. (graeme.finlayson@vicorp.com).

 

Graeme.

 

________________________________________________________

graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport

gee_fin@hotmail.com / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk

[murph7355]

Oi, Graeme you bugger

 

Marius - the display can be had from elsewhere much cheaper. I have the details somewhere at home.

 

I like the direct drive top in the Caterham 6spd but it depends on your engine. I think your Vx could handle a more "over drive" top but don't go too far. If the options are limited, stick with 1:1.

 

Also, Dave Edmands is looking at an alternative box. Only 5spds at the minute I think, and probably not production ready just yet. It will possibly cost more than the Quaife one. But it's meant to weigh just 14kg! Which I believe is about 18kg saved!!

 

I'll be buying one or the other over the next 6mths so if you fancy talking collectively to a supplier (should Graeme's not work out) then we might be able to get a few euros off...

 

 

[edmandsd]

Took possession of the prototype of this box at Curborough this weekend - First test will be the Brighton Speed Trials on the 14th September.

 

Box will be formally launched at Autosport show in Jan although I might be able to get hold of a batch before then..........for L7C members ?? depending on testing/demand.

 

Box will have choice of 35 gears plus drop gear options all priced similar to Quaife's 6 speed seq. You will however require a longer slider prop and linkage which is currently being developed by HT Racing.

[Mike Biddle]

Hi Marius, can't answer all your questions, but,

 

A. Definetley get the overdrive sixth, your engine has bags of power, and torque over a wide range so smaller steps in the ratios does'nt make sense. My car has less power and still pulls hard in (overdrive) sixth right up to around 7,000 RPM, and will go to 7,500.Cruising at 180-200 KPH is no problem.

 

I have the 3.92 diff and 13" wheels, but what diff you select would depend on what result you want, and even what clutch you have, did you go for a 5.5" or 7.25"? If it's a 5.5" you might be better off with the 4.11 for hillclimbing or sprinting.

 

B. Don't know.

 

C. I bought the indicator from Quaiffe, and it works very well, you can buy it elsewhere, and it will certianly work, but watch the size, the quaiffe item is quite big, which I find helpfull because the display is readable at a glance.

 

D.Don't know, but it cant be that difficult to arrange a switch that senses your tug on the lever.

 

E. Can't help here either I'm afraid, too far away from the action.

 

Regards, Mike.

 

[murph7355]

Dave - what chance do you think there is of us getting a "bulk" discount on these? They'll be new and relatively unproven after all, and I get a feeling that at least 3 people might be up for it if the moolah was right...

 

I'm personally not in anay particular rush, but could be coerced into parting with money if it meant a saving...

 

 

[Peter Carmichael]

Marius,

 

Arnie has had to work around the 1:1 fifth and overdrive 6th with a 4.4:1 conversion on his diff. With your current diff you are somewhere in between. The 1:1 sixth will be too low. FWIW, I run a 1:1 sixth Caterham box with a 3.92 diff and peak power at 8900rpm. If your power band is significantly lower in the rev range then you might want to go for a 3.62:1 so that first gear gets into the mid-50s mph.

 

Compare this 3.62 diff and 1:1 sixth presuming an 8300 rpm power peak:

Gear   Km/h per 1000 RPM  Km/h @8300 RPM  Km/h @8900 RPM

--------------------------------------------------------

1 10.83 90 96

2 14.25 118 127

3 17.72 147 158

4 21.45 178 191

5 24.91 207 222

6 28.68 238 255

 

Km/h RPM (in Gears)

----------------------------------------------------------

1 2 3 4 5 6

----------------------------------------------------------

10 923 702 564 466 401 349

20 1846 1403 1128 933 803 697

30 2769 2105 1693 1399 1204 1046

40 3692 2807 2257 1865 1606 1395

50 4615 3508 2821 2331 2007 1744

60 5539 4210 3385 2798 2408 2092

70 6462 4912 3950 3264 2810 2441

80 7385 5613 4514 3730 3211 2790

90 8308 6315 5078 4196 3613 3139

100 7016 5642 4663 4014 3487

110 7718 6207 5129 4415 3836

120 8420 6771 5595 4817 4185

130 7335 6061 5218 4534

140 7899 6528 5619 4882

150 8464 6994 6021 5231

160 7460 6422 5580

170 7926 6824 5928

180 8393 7225 6277

190 8859 7626 6626

200 8028 6975

210 8429 7323

220 8831 7672

230 8021

240 8370

250 8718

 

Gear Change RPM drop (change @8300) RPM drop (change @8900)

-------------------------------------------------------------

1 -> 2 -1991 (to 6309) -2135 (to 6765)

2 -> 3 -1625 (to 6675) -1743 (to 7157)

3 -> 4 -1441 (to 6859) -1546 (to 7354)

4 -> 5 -1155 (to 7145) -1238 (to 7662)

5 -> 6 -1089 (to 7211) -1168 (to 7732)

 

with this 4.1:1 and overdrive sixth:

Gear   Km/h per 1000 RPM  Km/h @8300 RPM  Km/h @8900 RPM

--------------------------------------------------------

1 10.59 88 94

2 14.97 124 133

3 18.94 157 169

4 22.00 183 196

5 25.32 210 225

6 29.07 241 259

 

Km/h RPM (in Gears)

----------------------------------------------------------

1 2 3 4 5 6

----------------------------------------------------------

10 944 668 528 455 395 344

20 1888 1336 1056 909 790 688

30 2832 2004 1584 1364 1185 1032

40 3776 2672 2112 1818 1580 1376

50 4720 3339 2640 2273 1975 1720

60 5664 4007 3168 2728 2370 2064

70 6608 4675 3697 3182 2765 2408

80 7552 5343 4225 3637 3160 2752

90 8496 6011 4753 4092 3555 3096

100 6679 5281 4546 3950 3440

110 7347 5809 5001 4345 3784

120 8015 6337 5455 4740 4128

130 8683 6865 5910 5135 4472

140 7393 6365 5530 4816

150 7921 6819 5925 5160

160 8449 7274 6320 5504

170 7728 6715 5848

180 8183 7110 6192

190 8638 7504 6536

200 7899 6880

210 8294 7224

220 8689 7568

230 7912

240 8257

250 8601

 

Gear Change RPM drop (change @8300) RPM drop (change @8900)

-------------------------------------------------------------

1 -> 2 -2427 (to 5873) -2603 (to 6297)

2 -> 3 -1738 (to 6562) -1863 (to 7037)

3 -> 4 -1155 (to 7145) -1238 (to 7662)

4 -> 5 -1089 (to 7211) -1168 (to 7732)

5 -> 6 -1071 (to 7229) -1148 (to 7752)

[EFA]

Marius,

 

The 1:1 6th is the version to go for. This is what GFins is.

 

RRT should also be able to do you a good deal.

 

The flat upchanges can be ECU triggered, but there are progressive versions which use a linear pot to determine lever position in multiple positions which is better.

 

Also a fly by wire throttle system with pneumatic lever operation via steering wheel buttons is being developed - auto matyches revs and completes up and down changes in 20ms.

 

This is being developed for my car! let you know when its working.

 

 

Fat Arn

Visit the K2 RUM site

See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here

 

[Chelspeed]

a) 5 or 6 speed - Depends on tyres, peak and max revs, diff..... For me it was 5 speed overdrive top. Don't get the 6 speeder just for the sake of it, it's just another gear to change, if your engines torquey enough stick with the 5, or even 4 I guess.

 

b) alloy-housing - not too expensive compared to the cost of the box, 285 quid for a 4.5kg saving, yep worth it, where elese could you save that much weight for the same money? Except the bellhousing, presume you already have an alloy bellhousing....

 

b) II Is the alloy-housing more prone to crack ? Lasted 2 years on mine and not cracked yet, it's the same alloy casing that Quaife have sold for years on the conventional 5 speed boxes. SPC report some possibility of creep of the layshaft downwards and sell a thin steel plate that fits between the box and the bellhosuing to prevent this.

 

c) Does the gear-indicator-display work properly ? - I've got the pot from Quaife (it's actually a penny and giles part I think) but linked to my dash rather than to Quaifes display box. Works perfectly on this application so the mechanical bit is obviously OK. I think you'd be hard pressed to make the display box unreliable. Ray Sport sell a display box that links to it for a fraction of the price.

 

d) can the box be upgraded to flat-out-shifts (switch on box for ECU) ? - Sturggling with this. My ECU has the facility but I can't engineer a trigger. There's no facility built into the box and no way to add one simply. I tried a mechanical switch off the lever but a switch for the upchanges always gets in the way for downchanges. The stick's not long enough to make a pivoting lever as used in rally cars, nor is it long enough to use a strain gauge as used in touring cars. A mate of mine's looking at a two piece knobbie that has a proximity switch in it, first movement causes the outer bit to pivot triggering the switch. The designs done but he's not got round to making one yet.

 

e) where will I get the best price for the box ? Definetly SPC when I got mine.

[gee_fin]

Andy - it's either going back to Quaife ( I have no engine to mate it to LOL) or someone can buy it for what they're asking me for it, as said, if interested email me :)

 

________________________________________________________

graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport

gee_fin@hotmail.com / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk

[edmandsd]

I'll see what I can do Andy - Lets get it up and running first and go from there.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Marius]

*thumbup*What a hell of answers, wow !

 

@Stijn: hillclimbing felt even better than going round in circles on a track, huuuge fun it was, I´ll show you the pictures & vid´s at the BBQ....

 

Right, so all your hints brought me on quite a lot. So it´s definitly going to be the 6speeder in an alloy-housing, and probably the 1:1 in 5th as I´ve got the 3.92 and 4.11 diff lying around here, don´t want to buy a third one (which I definitly would have to with the 6th being 1:1). For pure sprint purpose I could imagine the 6th 1:1 would be the better way to go.

 

@Graeme, lack of cash until end of the year, hopefully I can get myself a box already around christmas (hoho, Santa Baby...) but definitly not earlier, sorry. But I´m sure it won´t be a problem for you to sell the box. Thanks for the offer, anyway.

 

Peter, interestingly the rev-drops are smaller with the 3.62/6th 1:1 conversion, that makes me thinking again. Keeping the engine reving can´t be that bad.

 

Choices, choices....

 

Can anyone of you throw a price into the room ? What did you lot pay for the boxes ?

 

DT 6th 1:1 3.250 pounds + VAT

+ 285 pounds for the alloy casing

 

but I´m sure DaveK could do something about it.

 

I already got a box from Steve Perks and am happy with it, so maybe I should give him a chance again.

 

Marius

[EFA]

Marius,

 

I reckon RRT will do you one with an alloy case for around £3000.

 

The issue is not with the top gear ratio, it is with the lower gear ratio's - particularly 1st (traction) 2nd and 3rd (pure acceleration)

 

Go for the 1:1 6th.

 

You can easily get a 3.62 or 3.38 CWP set as these are Ford std ratio's.

 

Getting a 4.44 if you overspec is very very hard, with KAM quoting a min 8 month wait at present.

 

Trust me Marius, I've been there.

 

Fat Arn

Visit the K2 RUM site

See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here

 

[Paul Gibb]

Peter,

Could you please tell me which wheel/tyre combination you used in calculating your gear tables? Trying to choose the right final drive/diff ratios for my car I have been considering rear tyre diameters between 20" and 22" on the Avon website (driving only on trackdays I am free of tyre regs etc).

Paul

 

L7 FUN

[NickD]

I've an Excel spreadsheet which gives ratios and max speeds/gear for all the Caterham & Quaife gearbox and wheel/tyre options. Send me an email if you want a copy.

The overall ratios for a Quaife 6-speed D/T box with a 3.6 diff are almost the same as those for the O/D box with a 4.1 (or 3.9 v 4.4).

Examples of max mph/gear are:

53, 70, 87, 105, 122 & 140 for the D/T with 3.6 diff compared with

52, 73, 92, 107, 123 & 142 for the O/D with 4.1 diff.

(all figures based on 20" tyres and 8500rpm)

[Paul Gibb]

Nick,

Thanks for the information. I have emailed you hoping for a copy of the spreadsheet.

Paul

 

L7 FUN

[EFA]

BE AWARE 22" DIA ACB10's have an actual diameter of 21"!!!!!!!

 

Oh and the gearing program Peter used is a freebie and can be downloaded from the links page of the K2 RUM website (below)

 

Fat Arn

Visit the K2 RUM site

See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here

 

 

Edited by - fat arnie on 29 Aug 2002 08:54:27

[Paul Ranson]

The Avon Racing web site suggests 22.10 for an 8.0/22.0 ACB10.

 

Paul

[DaveK]

Hi Marius

 

Quaife prices to trade depend on qty ordered.

 

If you order singularly then you get x% off.

 

If you order 5 then you get x - 10 %

 

I,m sure you get the idea.

 

Try montgomery motorsport in Ireland as they sell for cheaper than our buy in

price due to ordering in 10's.

 

Sorry I cannot help on this one ☹️

 

As for amount of gears then personally i feel that a 5 speed box is adequate for a vauxhall engine as the amount of torque produced is enough to pull the gear ratios.

The more gearchanges you make the more you risk missing a gear and losing time.

22" tyres 4.1 diff and race ratios will give good speed range.

Whats the point of spending all that money on the engine and then not using the results properly by changing gear all the time. 😬

 

Dave

[edmandsd]

Here, here

[Chelspeed]

Thirded about 5 speed. That's what I do but with a 4.4 diff.

 

Also agree about the discount, SPC got X% off from Quaife, split that between himself and me and I ended up paying less to SPC than I would have to Quaife if I'd ordered it direct.

[edmandsd]

Surely more than a coincidence that the 3 cars with the fastest speed's through the trap come to the same conculsion and run the same overall gearing

[EFA]

Paul,

 

Measure one!!!! (and you can even check the linearity of any growth (non existsant) by running a GPS against a wheel pickup electronic speedo).

 

 

Anyway 5 speed sequential boxes are for paupers Marius. It is also my belief that the 3 fastest cars over the line also have something Mr Carmichael does not and I don't quite have installation thereof finished on my car.

Needless to say initial tests with this device fitted have seen a 9mph improvement in max speed achieved over my personal test course.

 

Beware!

 

 

 

 

Fat Arn

Visit the K2 RUM site

See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here

 

[edmandsd]

scareeeeey