Tired dampers?

[TomB]

Evening all,

 

Would symptoms of tired dampers be manifested by crashy and hard suspension? My car has done 43k miles on the original Bilsteins, and the ride doesn't seem supple and taut, just hard and unyielding. In fact I'm wondering if it has suspension! It doesn't seem soft and wallowy which I expect would be indicative of worn dampers and none of them are leaking.

 

Edited to say, another observation is that during a 45-70 degree bend in the road, at say 40mph, if there are irregularities on the road, the outsde (loaded) wheel seems a bit skittish.

 

The car is running Toyo 888 which aren't the lightest tyre granted at about 18-19 PSI and is on standard front spring and progressive rear springs for a standard k series car having changed from harder race springs a few years ago.

 

 

 

Edited by - TomB on 16 Jun 2010 08:37:48

[Shad]

I would say so. Mine had done ~50k. Just changed the dampers for AVOs and replaced all the bushes, car feels super-fantastic now, lovely and taught, doesn't crash or clatter over bumps. Worth the time and effort to do the job

 

Simon

niknak.org

[TomB]

Hi Shad, where your Avo supplied by Freestyle as part of their spring & damper kit?

Did they supply the springs/ dampers and you fitted and adjusted the height?

[Shad]

Yes, although I bought my set used from a member on here, they were supplied by Freestyle and have their custom spring rates (which we think are 250lb front and 150lb rear). I fitted everything and have set the ride height, 65mm under the sump and around 17-18mm of rake. I like it pointy 😬

 

Anyway, excellent kit for those on a limited budget. I've got the dampers set at softest and the ride quality on the road is excellent, very similar to the Billys but without the bouncyness I had. Less roll with the stiffer springs. Not tested on track yet but I expect some encouraging lap times.

 

But I also strongly suspect that replacing my bushes really helped improve the whole experience. Some of the old ones (a-frame and de-dion in particular) were well past their best.

 

Simon

niknak.org

[Offspring]

Hi Tom,

 

I've also swapped Bilsteins for AVO's, there was a massive improvement in ride quality etc.

 

I bought them through Freestyle - It did take them some time (3 months 😔) to get them to me + provide the right length of sping, but was sorted in the end. AVOUK have also provided excellent warrantee service with a very quick turn around and made suitable amends when couriers damaged the returned items.

 

I would perhaps now give Simon at 7Tips Racing a call: Tel. 01558 668708 or 07920 843146. He can also supply AVO's + springs and will be able to give you all the options as well as suggest various alternatives....

 

Cheers

 

Alistair

[tbird]

Simon is that 65mm of clearance laden or un-laden, I thought I was close to

the ground at 69mm

 

Edited by - tbird on 16 Jun 2010 17:10:26

[irrotational]

Interesting thread...mine are at 44k and it is pretty skittish over bumpy tarmac (of which there is plenty)...

 

I have a "standard" superlight from 1997 with adjustable platform Billys - no idea what spring rates are

 

---

my mind is blank....

[TomB]

Well as I started this thread in 2010, I can resurrect it!

It looks like I thought about my hard ride in 2010, at 43k miles and promptly forgot about it.  I suspect marriage, house buying and life got in the way.  Last night I went out in the 7 for the first time in a month due to new baby, and was reminded how hard the ride was, crashing over bumps and feeling a bit skitty.  Also another one I felt last night was what felt like bump steer from the rear, especially on corners, when it would feel like there was a slight step out at the rear.  Im not sure the road surface was upto much, so that probably didn't help.   

The car is a 1996/ 55k miles, on original Bilstein dampers and recetnyl widetracked.  I mainly use it on road, but it was also possibly used as race/ track car pre 4000miles when I bought it.  Im running 70 profile tyres at about 18-19PSI which I suspect squirm around more than a 60profile tyre would.

I guess the first thing to try is higher tyre pressures or tyre profiles, but if, as I suspect, my dampers are past their best at 55k miles and nearly 20 years, what are the current best options?  

According to the archives, I could get the Billies refurbushed at around £100 a corner, or go for something like AVO or the new Nitron Street Series.  However from another thread I understand the Nitrons need a serving every couple of years/ 12000 miles and each service is £400.  I think I need a pretty compelling arguemetn for committing myself to having to drop the dampers out every other year and spend that much money servicing them.

Advice appreciated!  

[Molecular--Bob]

You might want to look at the state of the bushes in the rear suspension. Mine was much better behaved once i changed them, particularly unhappy was the bush in the tube.

[TomB]

Ive not looked at the bushes too recently, but probably about 5-6 years ago I refurbed the back end including all bushes.  The A Frame bush is the newer cotton reel type, rather than the older split bush. Good idea for a check over though.  

[Jonathan Kay]

1. Drive yours more. I have long periods away and the first few drives often create some... uncertainties.
2. Compare it with as many others as possible.
3. Have a good look at and play with the suspension, especially bushes.
4. Talk to Simon Rogers directly. 

Jonathan (Crossed with the previous two.)

[Shaun_E]

If it was a race car it might have 210lb/in springs on the back which will be hideous on the road. I suggest you find out what the spring rates are.

225 fronts and 140 rears would be OK but you could even go 200/130. Std fronts are I believe 170 and rears progressive.

As for dampers - the billies are a decent damper and you could get them refurbished. Most aftermarket dampers do not have the dirt/weather sealing that a road damper has hence the need to rebuild. If you do a lot of miles then 2 years is probably about right but you could leave it longer if you wanted. I had my Ohlins rebuilt this year after 5 years and they were a bit messy inside!! They still worked reasonably though.

Talk to Simon at Meteor for some sound advice based on the type of driving you do.

[TomB]

Hi Shaun, good suggestion, but some years ago I swopped out the fixed rate race spring and put on standard road springs.  Not sure on poundage off the top of head, but the progressive rears went on, and softer fronts.  I think I need to drive/ passenger in some other cars and get some other opinions as to whether its unusual or not.  

[Shaun_E]

A geometry check might be a good idea as well.