Setok Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 When accelerating hard and reaching high revs, and then switching up, I'm often experiencing the feeling of the the clutch not immediately biting, as if I was still in the lower gear (the wheels are still getting power, so it's not complete slip). Now this could be a sign of the clutch going. However once it does catch it is solid, even under a jerky load. Also it seems to get better after a few similar changes. I also don't remember having this issue (at least to anything near this extent) before winter, when it was sitting around for months. Another thing is that the car doesn't have super high mileage (around 50000 miles) and it's a lot lighter than the car that clutch would normally have been driving! I also don't do much city driving, so I find it surprising if the clutch has gone. Or then my driving style sucks --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Could it be oil contamination? A few changes and maybe the surface oil burns off only for more to leach out of the friction plate when left for a while IYSWIM. Steve. Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear who recommends Puddle Pet Care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Sounds similar to mine when I had the little oil weep from the gearbox selector rod - it took 2 or 3 years but the few drips made it to the clutch plate eventually ☹️ Look inside your bell housing and see if you can see oil sprayed around the inside at all. Solent Se7ens Web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Yeah, the possibility of an oil leak was raised. From the responses here, and what was mentioned by our local 7-expert, to check it would be an engine out operation. The thinking was to get the clutch parts anyway, then engine out, fit if necessary and check for oil leaks. That would of course mean wasting a fair bit of money on new parts, if it is just a leak, so anyone with a cool shortcut for testing the theory? --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 either remove the starter motor or the clutch fork cover and take a peek inside with a torch for oil deposits on the flywheel here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 either way its engine out as you have a worn clutch or an oil leak rendering the clutch useless. ☹️ here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Anybody know part numbers or directly where to get the clutch parts? The Caterham parts website doesn't seem to list anything clutch-related for a Crossflow. So basically it's a 1700 Xflow, '89 De Dion. Standard Escort mkII clutch? --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Hi Kristoffer, I just phoned parts and asked for the clutch plate, cover, CRB and spigot bearing, xflow 5speed. It is an AP set and about £230 I think. at 50k miles, as you will probably have the take the engine out anyway then you really should change the clutch as a service item.. MY car is getting close to being back together :) only a couple of more weeks and I will be back on the road (I hope). Should be up in Finland before the summer with work so will let you and Jouko know. Jonathan My Flickr ----------------------------------- The rebuild has started :) 92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 I just phoned parts and asked for the clutch plate, cover, CRB and spigot bearing, xflow 5speed. It is an AP set and about £230 I think. OK, cheers. That's a bit more than we were guessing over here (£100 more, actually!). Any idea if they are standard Escort/Ford stuff, as then it might be possible to source here? AP is ... ? Yeah, do give us a shout when you're over and we'll try to get all the Finnish se7eners together for some beers! --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 AP is the Manufacturer, it is a performance clutch kit, I remember on the box it said for sale through Caterham only or similar. I am sure you could source a cluch kit for a lot less though. I was happy to go with the Caterham item as I already tried to source one previously and did not have a lot of luck. Remember to replace the CRB as well. Jonathan My Flickr ----------------------------------- The rebuild has started :) 92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 As dave said take a look trough the release arm hole, i would first give it a good spray with brake clean while someone hold the clutch pedal down sdo it can go between clutch and flywheel/coverplate edited to say, maybe it's just some wheelspin Edited by - elie boone on 3 May 2010 16:07:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 jonboylaw, but is that performance clutch what Caterham would put in as standard for a Supersprint? I don't need an upgrade really, but would definitely not want a downgrade either, IYSWIM. Oh and not too sure what a CRB is (although I was planning to look it up) elie, oh I really doubt it's wheelspin. For one my 7 doesn't really have the power for that at those speeds and gear ratios, I'm fairly certain I could tell if it was that... (besides, this is a new thing and my 21Rs should still be OK). --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 You've a number of options, not sure I'd reccomend fitting a standard clutch, but you may not need to replace the cover plate (just the clutch driven plate and CRB [clutch release bearing]). Have a look here. May be worthiving them a ring to check their advice. Allen Edited by - allen on 3 May 2010 21:48:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Crudders Posted May 5, 2010 Area Representative Share Posted May 5, 2010 Hi Kris. If the problem is only evident on fast changes, could it be the clutch cable binding due to internal fraying or similar, and not releasing the clutch fork as fast as your left foot is releasing the pedal, IYSWIM? Just a thought, and a much easier fix than pulling the engine and box out. if you do need a new clutch, don't assume anything is 'standard' - although Ford parts are generally good for cross-compatibility, there are many variations in covers, plates and CRBs and I would recommend having it apart before ordering any bits. But check the cable first! HTH, Cruds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 A few updates: With fast driving and high revving, I sometimes end up with the clutch slipping for a while, even without the gear change. After a while it tends to go back to normal again. Maybe. I have noticed a stench of burning 'something'. Not metallic, and I don't think it's rubber, but more like oil or fuel. Sure, Xflows always smell a bit, but this is pretty pungent, and especially noticeable after a fast drive when slowing down. A couple of times it was so bad I ended up coughing. Whether it's related, I don't know. --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Oil contamination. back here because I want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Kris, The smell will be a combination of friction material and oil burning as the clutch slips. You're going to have to commit to the engine coming out I'm afraid. Steve. Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear who recommends Puddle Pet Care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 I guess, with funds as tight as they are, I'm kind of hoping I could somehow avoid getting a whole new clutch. So if there is a relatively high likelihood of it being oil contamination instead of a bad clutch, then I could just deal with a bad seal and continue with the old clutch. --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I don't think it works that way. If you have oil contamination then I think the friction plate is ruined. You need to replace the friction place and fix the leak. back here because I want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Agree with Charlie, Once impregnated the clutch plate won't recover. Steve. Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear who recommends Puddle Pet Care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Kris, Oil contamination does seem the most likely culprit, but another possibility is that the clutch diaphragm spring fingers are damaged (cracked or bent), usually caused by excessive pedal pressure. This would also provoke clutch slip and the burning smell you describe. Do you have a clutch pedal stop fitted? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 John, no I don't have a clutch pedal stop fitted, so I guess that's a possibility. That would still mean switching the clutch, though, wouldn't it? Or is there some other way to diagnose/fix that? --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yes, it would mean removing the engine to repair (new pressure plate). It's very difficult to examine the diaphragm springs properly in situ unless you have something like this! There are other possible causes of clutch slip that you might want to check out: Binding cable -- broken or corroded strands (already mentioned above) Insufficient slack in the cable (or lack of free play in the pedal) Restricted clutch fork movement Seizing CRB slider ...that is, anything that could reduce the pressure applied by the pressure plate. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setok Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Yeah, we checked for slack, and that was OK. I don't think the cable is binding (it's not a very old cable), but I'll have another look. --- Kristoffer Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICHCAT7 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I have exactly the same symptoms, when going from 3rd to 4th at warp speed i also notice 2 or 3 drops of oil coming out of the join between gearbox housing and block after a run, this stops after a while, and when not in use does not drip, so it is getting by the large crank cover seal, I am going to live with it for a while until engine has to come out! In the meantime i am just going to tell my self that the clutch just cant handle my crossflow powerplant 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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