JonP Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 [victor meldrew mode] I just don't believe it...replaced both front lower ball joint/spherical bearings, felt much better, less stiction, funny noises, weaving etc and now only 300miles later the problems back. So I jacked up the front and sure enough I have play in the N/S ball joint again. [/victor meldrew mode] I can't believe this is normal, particularly as we are talking touring road miles not track days, non sticky tyres etc etc. ie really boring! Comments anybody before I send at least one ball joint back to Caterham for a refund/replacement? PS these are the NRE (National Rod Ends) joints BTW not NMB Thanks JonP Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Are you sure it's not the whole bearing rattling around in the wishbone? That's what mine are doing and as far as I can ascertain the only cure is a new lower wishbone complete with bearing. Makes me wonder whether a better method of securing those sperical bearings might not be appropriate, mine are only held in with a circle of wire - not even a proper circlip. I have sourced some circlips and will be experimenting to see if I can locate the bearing properly before I spend £120 plus VAT per side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.klauser Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I seem to recall there was batch of wishbones where the circlip grove was machined in the wrong place such that the spherical joint could move up and down within its bore. If that's your situation you might try a quiet word with Caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Hi, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately further investigation has determined that the play really is in the spherical joint. The N/S is worse than the O/S, but both have developed play. BTW circlips available from Caterham as NIA3000-118 at a very reasonable 0.80UKP I only fitted the things beginning of this month! I have been assuming these things should not be lubricated as they are supposedly Teflon lined. Any thoughts about that any body? Thanks again JonP Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 My 97 car had proper circlips. Jason's 96 car had a cheap bit of wire to retain the bearings. The circlip is only under use when the car goes light. I had my first set in for 5 years of road and track, some of it with slicks. No Lube should be necessary as they are self-lubing and corrosion resistant. I have an old one on my desk as a worry bead type thing. Clean as the day it was put in. Nice bit of slop in it though. I will see how long these ones last under current conditions. I check them after every race meeting. New ones been in so far for 3 meetings = 5 races and no play in them. Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Hi Steve, Spoke to Caterham and they are going to replace under warranty. Looks like all future bearings supplied will be NRE manufacture as they seem to have changed suppliers. Perhaps these are not as hard wearing as the NMB jobbies, but I would have expected better than 3 weeks ish! I guess you check for play by putting the front of the car on chassis stands and then attempting to raise the front wheel/hub? Do you have ANY discernable play or are the joints still totally tight? The N/S of mine was so loose I thought the wheel bearing needed adjustment. Thanks JonP Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I test by jacking up so the wheel is off the gound by about 1.5" or so. Then with a stout bar about 1m in length under the tyre you can lever the wheel directly up and down and this shows up play in the joint. Same as for a trunnion test. When in good nick the joints are completely free of play. It's also a good idea to do this test and look at other bushes and joints and see how they look. Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Hi Steve, Thats what I expected. Perhaps its just a duff batch. Cheers JonP Back Se7ening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I am told that NMB have taken over National and are deleting duplicated parts. Hope they delete the right range.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Hi Roger, No sign on the National web site that there has been a take over, but the parts do look 'very' similar...apart for the part no that is 😬 wow smilies on tap! I'll keep you posted if I find out more. Thanks JonP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 25, 2002 Author Share Posted August 25, 2002 Update: new spherical bearings arrived from Caterham...fitted Friday evening. As per the previous posts by StewartG and Felix the N/S SB has tiny amount of play up/down in the wishbone, which I had not noticed before as the original bearings were completely knackered. It seems therefore that the loose fit of the SB in the wishbone might have contributed to the early demise of the replacement bearing. Because the SB I took out was loose too, that hid the play in the fit to the wishbone. As I can't afford to replace the wishbone right now I have fitted the new N/S bearing to the wishbone with some Loctite 641 bearing retainer adhesive. This seems to do the trick and for £5.47 works out a bit cheaper than a replacement. Cheers and thanks again JonP Back Se7ening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 That sounds good. I''ll remember that one. Steve email: speedy.steve@ukonline.co.uk My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 That sounds good. I''ll remember that one. Steve email: speedy.steve@ukonline.co.uk My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 That sound''s like a good fix. I''ll remember that one! Steve email: speedy.steve@ukonline.co.uk My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted August 25, 2002 Author Share Posted August 25, 2002 Say...steady that man....wasn''t that good! Back, poorer and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Opening up an oldish thread. Update. After only 800 miles and 3 months off use, my new lower wishbone spherical joints are on the way out... The first set lasted 12000 miles and 5 years. I called Caterham. The warranty man is back in tomorrow. Will keep you posted. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Interesting as I have just replaced mine after five years and close to 38,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted September 11, 2002 Author Share Posted September 11, 2002 Oh dear... Do I detect a 'these parts are identical, sir' .....except they only last 5 minutes......... 🤔 So far (100 miles), my glued in joints are still OK. Keep you posted! Back, poorer and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I called after sales / warranty dept. Dropped the line about being the Hants (north) and Berks A.O. (well it must have some benefits mustn't it). Explained about the original joints and replacements longevity and mentioned the Blatchat thread.... They were unable to confirm if the supplier or spec had been changed to correct the problem. It all seemed pretty routine and perhaps is not a so uncommon claim. Replacement joints will be in the post to be. I will have to post the offending replacement items back to them when I've swapped them. I will compare specs of what I get and have had prevoiusly and let you know. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 Although my 4 year old bearings were certainly not stiff in their action there seems to be little or no slop in them. So I stuck them back into the wisbones using Halfords bearing retainer (about £2.50) I also sourced some proper circlips as the wire rings didn't inspire confidence. I can no longer detect any play with the wheel wobble test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Yep Stewart, The original joints that we all had / have seem to be of good hard wearing quality... Let see how my replacements for the replacements shape up... I could even get the procedure down to a quick road side swap with all this practice or is it as I get some satisfaction from getting it right in the end /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 After over a week and 3 calls to Caterham's warranty dept the replacement bearings came... They did come with enough time to fit before my next outing. Guess what. They are NRE WSSB 10's. The same quick wearing ones I am replacing.... I must replace before next outing and will do it tomorrow.... /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 Hi Y'all, Just been emailed by Caterham to say they could find no play in the bearings I returned..... May be these are a new 'self healing' type? Or perhaps I'm going barmy...but then quite a few of you knew that anyway! Seriously, Caterham have been good enough to replace both bearings FOC and I expect there is a logical explaination! Back, poorer and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 JonP, Are you sure it was not play in the bearing to rosejoint housing as Stewart G commented on? I can feel the play in mine (rose joints) between finger and thumb X 2. I have replaced the offending items and used bearing retainer. BTW, I bought a new 3/4", 3/8" drive socket and that fits on the bottom nut with the car wheels on the ground and the weight of the car on the joint and I can fix by only undoing the bottom nut. Really quick job now... When it's gone off (3 hours full hardness) and if it is not raining I will be out trunnion testing and a for a drive. /Steve My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Hants (North) and Berkshire area club site here Edited by - stevefoster on 22 Sep 2002 14:34:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 Steve, Re previous post, that was some of my problem, but could feel play in the bearing I returned just by using finger pressure with the bearings off the car, so a bit of a mystery! See you Thursday hopefully! Cheers Eliseless and Se7ening again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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