Advice on Scrutineering

[cskip]

I am attending the Intro to Sprinting next weekend and I am booked to do Goodwood the following weekend. So I thought it prudent to seek advice on the obvious things that could be picked up in scrutineering. I won't have much time to correct between the Intro and Goodwood.

 

What have you had to rectify in the past?

 

What are the obvious checks? (apart from noise!)

 

Some specific questions:

 

- Do I need to have an FIA head restraint behind the high backed Tillet seat?

- Do I need yellow tape on positive wire to battery?

- Do I need a closed pedal box?

- Do I need to have open ended wheel nuts?

 

Any advice greatly received.

 

Skip.

 

 

[CaterBram]

Hi Cskip,

 

I'm in the similar position as being a newbie, and i'm also attending the intro to sprinting and goodwood.

 

I've had some good advice so far so hopefully my advice will be right.

 

1) A FIA Head restraint is required behind the Tillet Seat

2) You Need Yellow tape on the NEGATIVE Cable from the battery.

3) Regs say we should have a closed pedal box but it sounds like your in the same boat as me with an older XFlow with the open foam plate.

4) Non of the Caterham's i've seen have had open ended wheel nuts.

5) FIA Roll Bar & Petty Strut, or FIA Full Cage

6) Padding on Roll Bar / Cage in places where your head could hit.

7) Timing Strut

8) Snell approved helmet

9) FIA approved fireproof overalls

10) FIA approved Suitable Gloves.

11) MOT, MSA License, Road Tax, Insurance.

12) Minimum of 2" Clearance from top of Roll bar to top of helmet

13) Arrow label to show where to cut the ignition

14) Double throttle return springs acting directly on the throttles, ie not via a load of linkages

15) Oil catch tank(s) on any open engine breathers you may have

16) Competition Numbers in contrast to body or panel colour.

17) 4 Point harness or better recommended.

 

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits.

We are doing Yorkshire 3 Peaks in aid of Rotherham Hospice

 

 

Edited by - CaterBram Jnr on 9 Apr 2010 21:28:14

[Drumster]

CSkip,

 

With reference to CBJ's points:

 

1) FIA head restraint. I don't have one for my Tillett and it isn't necessary for ME, because my Tillett is tilted back a fair way and there is only just room for some roll-bar padding between the FIA bar and the headrest of the Tillett.

 

8) Doesn't have to be Snell approved as my BS6658 Type A/FR is also within the Regs

 

As I found out last year scrutineering seems to take many forms and some scrutineers are more thorough than others. E.g it can vary from what appears to be no more than a cursory check to a full-blown examination....

 

Last year was my first season and I too had lots of concerns and worries, nothing more than fear of the unknown really. Once you've done a few events you'll realise that it's nowhere near as daunting as you're imagining 😬

 

Look forward to seeing you at Goodwood

 

 

 

 

Chris Alston

C7CAT 1800 Supersprint

R248 ....and then I jumped in

 

Edited by - Aeroscreens on 9 Apr 2010 21:49:22

[CaterBram]

I stand corrected 😶‍🌫️

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits.

We are doing Yorkshire 3 Peaks in aid of Rotherham Hospice

[David Lynch]

Continuing from the pedal box issue, check any penetrations linking engine bay and passenger compartment. Harewood scruitneer rightly did not like the torn rivet holes in top of my passenger footwell (left over from relocated battery tray). Also check your grommits.

 

EN Yorks 7's Flickr

[robmar]

Couple of other esay things to sort now / thing about

 

1. make sure your battery is securely fastenned down, put your hand on the top and see if it moves side to side. Try to eliminate all movement, as no one wants a battery flying about in a crash

2. make sure all terminals to the battery are covered, simple electric tape will do...

3. sign on before scrutineering, may seem obvious but... in fact signing on is where you need your documents generally...

4. first timers take a couple of quid with you to get an MSA sticker for your helmet if not already got one. This isn't the SNELL badge but a separate one. You will only ever need one per helmet.

5. make sure any camera mounts are well and truly secured including associated cables.

6. if it is your first time, tellt he scrutineer and ask them what he is looking for and explain why. 99/100 they will be happy to

7. make sure there are no holes on the firewall/bulkhead to the engine, cover up with tape will suffice.

8. have your race numbers on prior to scrutineering, makes things easier

9. take everything loose out of your boot & passenger footwell, and also from your bootcover, you wouldn't have to walk the course at lunch looking for a pair of gloves that you left on there before your practice runs 😳

10. some scrutineers may check that your seat bolts go right through the rear cross member, although can't remember the las time they checked.

 

rob

[Graham Perry]

Agree with Robs item number 10 as I have had the problem with the bolts not going all the way through the crossmember as well in the past.

 

Two other rarer things that I have seen in 15 years of competing.

 

Some scrutineers have a thing about sealing the boot floor round the edges (fuel tank underneath) And if you car is an older car they like a cover over the main rubber filler pipe where it passes through the boot

 

Locally (East) word has got around that Caterham Quick racks can have a bit of play in them (Don't know where this came from ☹️) so it might be worth a quick check to see that you don't have any play at all when you shake the wheel.

 

One other thing to play by ear. Some events want you to tape up your headlights, while at others they don't care. Never have worked this one out

 

Whats the score re Caterham Noise at Goodwood, anyone know ?

 

Even if things are not quite right, worst I have ever had is an 'advisory' so never been sent home and not allowed to play. They do want you to compete after all, but noise at some courses can be a show stopper.

 

Enjoy

[Alan Bowler]

make sure there are no holes on the firewall/bulkhead to the engine, cover up with tape will suffice.

---

So if someone removed their heater, put in a blanking plate, but fitted a B&Q vent in it to keep their toes warm, that would be "a bad thing", taped up or otherwise?

AB

 

[FlymoFraser]

Goodwood is very hot on noise, both static and drive by, if you fail, I understand you will be stopped from competing, other venues are less sticky but you need to check the regs for each place.

 

If you are sprinting at an L7C event and you get failed at scrutineering, I'd suggest you keep calm and find one of the more experienced sprinters for advice. There are not many things that we can't sort out as long as the car is not a physical wreck. I wouldn't suggest you start arguing the toss about the regs or getting stroppy with them as they can potentially make life for you and all those in similar cars very difficult.

 

There now CSkip, you've just had a preview of my talk on preparation next Saturday 😬

 

Re the yellow tape btw I'll try to bring my roll on Saturday to save anyone buying a whole roll for 6 ins of tape, in 3 years I've never found another use for it 😬.

[mikes]

So then Rob - did you find your gloves? 😬 😬

I did once have a useful scrut who picked up some play in a front wheel bearing - fixed by one of the Club spanner monkeys I think - it is amazing - bit of trouble and they appear from all over the place - marvelous

it is a really anxious time when you go through the first few times - if you have any problems get someone to get our Comp Sec (if he is not getting himself on the outside of a can of cider 😬) or another 'experienced' sprinter to help. You could always try to get Dave ' I know what is in the Blue Book' Nelson involved - but it will involve shouting .

I had several hassles with a tinted helmet visor last year - I had the untinted with me as well and said I would put it on to avoid arguing, so best to be prepared to say the same if you normally use a tinted one.

As long as there isn't anything major (like noise at Goodwood) it is nearly always fixable - try not to worry too much!

Mike

[Mr Happy]

Seat Belts:I removed the FIA sell by date as it was causing some problems. For sprints and hill climbs you just need belts a lop and diagonal is fine but I would never use them. It a 6 point for me every time.

 

 

[Mark Durrant]

There is also the tale of a 'senior' sprinter who changed his wheels at Curborough and found out half way round Paddock bend that he had only tightened the nuts on three of the wheels or,

 

The 'pit monkey' in a dual drive partnership who fitted the sprint tyres in the paddock at Curborough took his first run before letting the better half take her first practice run. On finishing she commented to 'pit monkey' that the car was not handling properly, PM said it was OK when he drove however, on returning to the paddock he found that he had only changed three of the four wheels so the car was fitted with three Kumho's and one CR500. 😳

[Z3MCJez]

Re the yellow tape btw I'll try to bring my roll on Saturday to save anyone buying a whole roll for 6 ins of tape, in 3 years I've never found another use for it.

Wrap another 6" around the steering wheel in the straight up position. Can't think of any other uses

 

This is an interesting thread for a racer, to see the issues that you've had. In respect of sealing tape, you can get aluminium tape from Demon Tweeks (or Lidl, in my case ) which is a pain to use, but is accepted.

 

Re: taping headlights, it becomes clear why you do this when you have snipers shooting at you from the crowd (see, Silverstone, 11/04/10). The little stones that they have included within the as yet unseeded run off areas were the cause of two screens requiring replacement, as well as numerous "bullet holes" in front number plates and (in my case) headlight. Not an issue for sprinting though, until you hit something hard My rear wings are a mess at ground level as a result too.

 

We were tested for belt dates this weekend, which was a first. We're also weight tested and minimum height tested at pretty much every round. I don't know if that's relevant to the L7C sprints.

 

The other thing that we were checked for this weekend was loose wires under the bonnet. Cable tie everything.

 

Jez

[GrahamV]

An additional snippet....

 

If your car was manufactured after 1999 it will need a Catalytic Converter fitted. Although this is rarely checked, mine was checked twice in 2009 (Pembery and Llys-y-fran). It was checked with a 'thermometer' type gauge to show that the exhaust was hotter after the Cat.

 

It will be difficult to check this year as my 'Cat is in the can' - but I do have an FIA certificate for it

 

Graham

[cskip]

Excellent information guys. Thanks.

 

I have 3 specific questions though:

 

1. Do I need a covered pedal box? (I do not have the pedal box introduced in the 90s, rather just foam!) This could be a showstopper, as it will be difficult to make one in the paddock

2. Do I need a FIA Head restraint behind the high back tillet seat? (I have one on back order from CC, but not due in until May!) We seem to have conflicting advice!

3. Do I need to replace the wooden boot floor with a metal boot floor? (probably best to seal it either way!)

 

Skip.

 

Edited by - cskip on 14 Apr 2010 17:10:07

[Nigel Fox]

1.You don't need a covered pedal box. Mine is "sealed" with rubber gasket material taped into place. The scrutineers look for light showing through into the footweel, it doesn't have to be perfect.

2. Don't know.

3. I have never had a boot floor fitted.

 

Full time class 4 Zetec

[Nigel Fox]

In addition to the above, if you have any problems at scrutineering, don't argue, stay friendly, get away from the scrutineer, then ask an expert for advice. People like Mark Durrant and Simon Rogers know the rules backwards and will advise or negotiate as required.

 

Full time class 4 Zetec

[Richard Price]

2. Do I need a FIA Head restraint behind the high back tillet seat? (I have one on back order from CC, but not due in until May!) We seem to have conflicting advice!

I believe the clubs line is that one should be fitted. However Andy Griffiths has run for the last two years in the British hillclimb leaders championship without one.

 

3. Do I need to replace the wooden boot floor with a metal boot floor? (probably best to seal it either way!)

 

No. I've always run with the standard wooden boot floor, and I know of cars that have run with no boot floor.

 

 

 

 

[Stuart Miller 7]

Skip

 

I'll be there on Saturday (SLR with full cage)

 

I've got spare head restraints for both FIA bar and cage which I'll bring with me. You can have the one that fits your car in exchange for a couple of beers to save you waiting on Caterham. Just havn't got around to advertising these (and some other stuff) yet.

 

Best regards

 

Stuart

 

 

 

 

[CaterBram]

As far as I know the Head Restraint's arn't mandatory under the MSA regs in our car's but are strongly recommend,

 

See Reg 2.3 on page 168 of the blue book

See Reg 13 on page 175 of the blue book

 

Personnally i wouldn't run without one. but then I do run with a bench seat and head restraints for both driver & passenger. 😬

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits.

We are doing Yorkshire 3 Peaks in aid of Rotherham Hospice

[Mark Durrant]

Lets make this quite clear as I do not want any competitor failing scruitineering because they do not have the correct head restraint fitted. The Blue Book states on parge 175, para 13:

 

Head Restraints

 

Head restraints when required to be fitted, must be capable of restraining a 17kg mass decelerating at 5g.

 

Dimensions to be 10cms x 10cms and located such that the driver’s/passenger’s head/helmet is restrained and cannot move past it under rearward forces, or be

trapped between the rollbar and the head restraint. It is recommended that it be within 5cm of the driver’s/passenger’s helmet when they are normally seated.

 

The club took advice and were told that the seats currently fitted to our cars including the Tillet will not be capable of restraining a 17kg mass decelerating at 5g.

 

The other problem is where the standard headrest does not line up with the back of the helmet which could be dangerous in the event of an off.

 

Therefore, please make sure you have a headrest fitted otherwise you risk not being able to compete and arguments like 'it was ok at venue x last week' will not wash with most scruitineers. You have been warned.

 

Mark D

[cskip]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

Stuart - I'll take you up on that offer. I need the one for the FIA Bar.

[Chris101]

Just in case any of you are going for a dual drive - the head restraint will need to adjust if the drivers seating position changes for each of the two drivers. We nearly got caught on this last season ❗

[CaterBram]

Just came accross the following in the blue book which confirms marks stance on head rest being mandatory.

 

have a look a page 327, Sprints, Hill Climbs and Drag Racing.

10.1.12. Head restraints (K.13): mandatory for all cars except for cars of Periods A – E (Nomenclature and Definitions).

---

 

I do some really sad things when i'm bored.

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits.

We are doing Yorkshire 3 Peaks in aid of Rotherham Hospice

[cskip]

Thanks to Stuart I have now solved by head restraint issue.

 

Luckily I got the Scrutineer to examine my car at the Intro to Sprint event yesterday. So I have some things I need to resolve raedy for Goodwood:)

 

Skip.

 

Edited by - cskip on 18 Apr 2010 20:44:18