1400 to 1600 engine swap

[Fishy Dave]

Next month I shall be attempting to swap my existing 1400 EU2 Supersport engine and 5 speed box for a 1600 EU3 SS and 6 speed box. I could do with an advance shopping list of bits needed to carry out the swap and things to look out for.

 

Having trawled through the archives I have found plenty of people have swapped from 1400 to 1800 but not many to 1600.

 

Am I right in thinking I should keep my existing EU2 wiring and ECU, and just change over the 1400 flywheel? Do I swap over the blue 1400 injectors, or change to the 'straw' coloured injectors?

 

Whilst the engines are out, I will be painting the rusty chassis tubes, and fitting a thermostat. I'll also need to swap the dry sump system across to the 1600. The clutch release bearing was new about 2 and a half years ago, about time for a new one again? I'll change the engine mount rubbers too, as these are original I think.

 

Any other tips would be much appreciated, as this is probably the biggest job I've carried out on a car before.

 

Thanks, Dave

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

 

Edited by - Fishy Dave on 3 Apr 2010 15:32:53

[Englishmaninwales]

Am I right in thinking I should keep my existing EU2 wiring and ECU

,

Yes

and just change over the 1400 flywheel?

Yes

Do I swap over the blue 1400 injectors, or change to the 'straw' coloured injectors?

Not sure....

You will need to use the 1400 induction system if stepper motor type.

Replace the CRB.

Edited to add that if using the cast forward facing SS induction system you will need to dispense with the front manifold support to allow fitment of the scavenge pump. I also removed the boss for the manifold support on the underside of the front runner to allow an easier route for the scavenge return pipe to DS tower.

Malcolm

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 3 Apr 2010 16:28:19

[Mr Locust]

Dave,

 

you also need to decide which way you want to go with the ignition system. EU3 has plug mounted coils and no distributor.

 

How complete is your EU3 engine? I would be tempted to fit and EU3 SS ECU if you have all the bits including the loom.

 

Ian

 

Green and Silver Roadsport 😬

[Englishmaninwales]

I would be tempted to fit and EU3 SS ECU if you have all the bits including the loom.

---

There is some info in the archives about this. I think requires some rewiring. But keeping the (larger 56mm)1400 TB, plenum, engine loom, ECU, flywheel is simple, just need to get an answer about the injectors. My setup (1800ss) with cream injectors passes the MOT emissions too.

[Fishy Dave]

Thank you all for the help so far. I think the last suggestion sounds the simplest for me, as wiring is probably me weakest area.

Thanks for the tips on the scavenge pump/manifold.

 

I'm not sure what a stepper motor is, let alone if I have one?!

 

Anyone able to advise on the injectors? What colour do 1600SS have as standard?

 

Thanks

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[oilyhands]

If your current EU2 SS injectors are light blue then the closest swap would be to TF160 injectors, the EU2 straw injectors will be an overkill and will swamp the engine with fuel.

 

If your current injectors are straw coloured then retina them and up your fuel pressure to around 3.8 bar.

 

Oily

[charlie_pank]

I have a whole induction system off an EU3 roadsport, including the injectors and injector loom, plenum and throttle body, TPS and ECU. Even have a nice hand-made 4-2-1 exhaust manifold.

 

Let me know if you want any of them, I'd love to get rid of the box at the back of the garage.

 

 

C

 

back here because I want to be.

[Fishy Dave]

Thanks both of you, I'll be collecting the engine at the end of the month so will see what I need then.

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[Fishy Dave]

I collected my new 1600 EU3 engine last Sunday, so have started work. First off I have built my new engine hoist and stand and put the engine on the stand (thank to Oily for advice on which bolt size to use).

Next, I have removed the wet sump and the wasted spark coil pack bits. I can see where the distributor fits, however, no drive fitted to the end of the cam. Searching through the archives it looks like i need to purchase a drive spigot. Does anyone have a part number/best source for these. Are they easy to fit and get the timing right in situ?

Some posts have suggested it's dead easy, other seem to think it's pretty difficult (Bare in mind I am learning as I go)? Basic assistance gratefully received.

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[oilyhands]

Instructions for fitting are on my K series page. At the moment the spigot (NJJ10001) is out of stock at most suppliers. I have a few here but they are not cheap. I normally harvest secondhand ones from old cams.

 

Oily

[Englishmaninwales]

I have a spare pair of standard Rover cams with a drive spigot. Drop me a blatmail

Malcolm

[Fishy Dave]

Thanks Dave, have just read the section on your excellent site. You mention around 10 degrees, do you just do this by eye or do you have a tool/method of arranging this precisely?

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[Fishy Dave]

I removed the 1400 engine and gearbox complete last night. Only a couple of issues, like not realising the fuel return pipe and lead to the coil were still connected 😳. Sadly this came too late for the lead to the coil, I've snapped it.

 

Now can take my time swapping over all the bits and treating the rust on the chassis rails.

 

I have installed the cam spigot by eye and protractor, hoping that's going to be accurate enough?

 

Collecting my 6 speed box on Saturday.

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[jchasey]

Quick thought Dave - what diff ratio are you running?

 

Caterham tend to supply 3.92 diff with 5 speed box, 3.6 diff with the 6 speed box. End result is that if you upgrade from the 5 speed and use the 3.92 diff with 6 speed box (as I have done) you run out of revs when you hit about 110+ (track only of course ).

 

For this reason I use 23-57-13 slicks on 8" rears which have a bigger circumference and in effect gear things down slightly so you can still hit 120mph (run out of revs/track at Snetterton at this point)

 

John

[Fishy Dave]

Hi John

 

Will reply to your e-mail tonight, was a bit of a late one in the garage last night.

 

Yes, I have a 3.92 also. I think I'll have to upgrade the diff or change wheels and tyres as you have done. When you changed to a LSD this year did you stick with a 3.92 then?

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[jchasey]

Yes, still with 3.92 - other advantage with the larger tyres is a bit more rubber on the road, plus since I had those tyres anyway, was no extra cost to change them.

John

[Fishy Dave]

Well, this has kept me busy every evening for the last few weeks, tired now!

 

New engine and box is in, just connecting everything back up. It looks as thought he oil pressure senders are different. The old one has two wires leading to it, whilst this new one has just the one. I assume this means it grounds to earth via the block? So, will it still work by connecting the positive alone to this sender?

 

I also have a wire which is 'spare' It's about two foot long, starting from the area of the drivers side headlight, with a spade connector on it. I just can't seem to see where this connects?

 

Help gratefully received, as I have booked the day off today to finish.

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[Fishy Dave]

Well, I carried on anyway, with no oil pressure sender connected, and still no idea what the spare wire is (Purple with yellow stripe)!

I started the engine by 11.30, and it fired into life first thing, such a relief! Sadly their was a water leak from the gasket on the water rail (I had reused the old one). Not having a new gasket to hand I made a new one using the old sump gasket!

 

So, and hour later I tried again, it fired up, this time I had a fountain of coolant coming from the bottom of the block!

After a minute of head scratching and panic I realised what had happened - The leaking coolant had collected in the bell housing, so the flywheel became a water wheel!

After hoisting the front of the car high into the air to bleed the air from the system I took it out for its first drive. WOW! I cannot believe the difference, it feels like a new car.

Firstly the steering is so much lighter with a greased rack and new column bushes.

Secondly the gear ratios are much better suited to the car, although the shift action is much harder than in the 5 speed.

Lastly, the engine performance is just incredible compared to my 1400. The combination of the bigger capacity, porting and correctly timed cams give it more urge throughout the rev range.

Before 4500 revs my 1400 was pretty sluggish, now this engine pulls from 3000 revs with a smooth power curve until the limiter. Once hot it has the occasional pop and bang on over run too 😬

 

So, we shall definately be at the Poole Quay meet tomorrow, after I flat floor and sort the geometry in the afternoon.

 

I feel very proud to have carried out this work myself, and want to thank those who gave advice on here and to Oilyhands for patiently answering my queries and supplying the injectors.

 

Dave

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car

[Nifty]

Purple and yellow is the horn feed line (from the relay).

 

========================================

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

 

Edited by - Nifty on 24 Jun 2010 11:04:59

[Fishy Dave]

Aah, that makes sense now, thanks mate. My horn is fitted elsewhere, so was probably never connected after all. Feel happier now.

 

David Smitheram, Wiltshire (South) Joint AR, 07718 368173.

1400 supersport race car