Pics of my mad new lamps!

[Julian Thompson]

Check out these!

 

http://www.btinternet.com/~v11ufo/modifications.htm

[scooby dooby doo]

I *like*.

I have the JW lamps and am very interested in doing this as I think the indicator cones are 1 of the 2 naffest things on the car (the rubber rear light blocks are the other).

 

Anychance of full instructions or picutres / lists of suppliers?

 

HOOPY

[edmandsd]

here, here re rubber rear light blocks.

[Chelspeed]

Nice. Any chance of some pickies of the insides, like how did you fit the indicator blub in such a small space? I saw the LED sidelights at Demon last week, very neat.

[Julian Thompson]

Judging by the full virtual "mail sack" I've got about this lamp conversion, here is the lowdown on how to do it!

 

The parts you will need are:

 

1 pair 53/4 inch headlamps complete with original bulbs and wiring harness

 

2 x Ring "MicroLite Ultra" Keyfob torches (£5 each from my Dad's car accessory shop but I'm sure they all stock them! These are very, very bright, white light LED's, like nothing I've ever seen before)

 

2 x LED mounting bezels, standard size. I used GT Auto Alarm ones (nicked from my car audio shop, again, shouldn't be too tough to find a shop locally with these. They must fit the LED's from the above torches.

 

2 x ordinary LED's, non flashing - colour unimportant

 

2 x Phillips 12V 21W "Silverline" car indicator bulbs (come in a pack of 2, £15, again nicked from Dad's!)

 

2 x rubber grommets, 18mm approx

 

a few bits of wire, nice connectory things, solder, some black sealant. A step cutter from about 4mm to about 20mm (bit pricey if you ain't got one but dead useful - £18 from Autoleads)

 

The method is:

 

NOTE: Once you're dealing with the inside of the light, remember that the slightest slip or knock against the fragile silvering inside the lens will scratch it and there is no way back. Whenever you drill the carcass of the light, the swarf must be removed using a magnet and / or hoover before preceding to the next step. You MUST do this very thoughrougly or there will be tears!

 

1) Get the new bowls in front of you on a bench, and strip the sidelights, their grommets and the main bulb out. Also carefully remove the plastic installation ring from where the main bulb fits into the bowl. This will allow easier working by giving you more finger room!

 

2) Using the step cutter, enlarge the sidelight hole to 18mm (this will take the new indicator) and clip in the large grommet from the front. Superglue it into place to lock it.

 

3) Drill a pilot hole for the new LED sidelight beneath the above enlarged hole so that the position will be sensible. Mine are half way between the new indicator and the edge of the bowl. Enlarge this hole with the step cutter to 10mm (or whatever size your LED holders are - most will be 10mm).

 

4) Strip the Ring Microlight Ultra torches down and remove the LED's. Solder tails onto the LED's (careful not to overheat the LEDS - they are fragile) and then clip them into the LED holders. Now fit the assembly from the front.

 

5) Take a Phillips Silverline indicator bulb and using 27 fingers, feed it into the large grommet and tack it into place using superglue from the back. Solder an earth tail onto its body and a live tail to its "hot" point - again careful not to overheat it. You can now seal the Phillips bulb neatly into place with nice black sealant and allow to dry. This should be applied so that the whole exposed part of the bulb is protected. Ty wraps ought to be used for neatness and to give effective strain relief.

 

6) Now wire the second LED in series with the LED sidelight - this will drop the voltage to 6V and stop the Ring LED from cooking! Ty wrap this to the wiring behind the lamp as it will never be seen.

 

7) Simply feed the indicator wire (red green on my 7) through the loom that goes into the headlamp and connect it to the hot pin wire on the Phillips Silverline. The earth of the Phillips and the LED shoud go to the earth on the main headlight. The sidelight input goes to the input side of the LED circuit.

 

Reassemble, test, and hey presto. Time should be about 2 hours for the first lamp and 1 hour for the second!

 

The job should use really nice connectors so bulb changing is as simple as possible, and there should be consideration for moisture ingress, vibration and chafing at all times. Use plenty of ty wraps and think about everything as you do it so cables are not too short or need multiple connections - ugly!

 

Unfortunately I've not got any photos of my job as they are all back together now and I've not had chance but if my Email fills up again I'll have to take some shots!

 

If anyone gets stuck for materials I can help out but after the Seat Protector fiasco where I sent out nearly forty sets at a cost of about £100 to me and only recieved 4 cheques for £4.50 I'm not going to be very keen on sending anything out until the money is in my account, I'm afraid!

 

Anyway, good luck with your conversion and if you're stuck don't hesitate to email or phone me!

 

Cheers

 

Julian

 

[scooby dooby doo]

if you put all the relevant bits into a box and sell them as kits with instructions for some markup (to make up for the seat protector thing, and because we're all too lazy to hunt round various shops, and cos you'll provide the above as instructions) and demand cash before sending then won't we all be very happy?

 

please 🤔

 

HOOPY

[Paul22uk]

has anyone with computer knowlege got any idea why i can't see any photo's on julians site ! actually come to think of it i might of happend on a few more sites ! is this a setting on my computer ?

 

thanks in advance

[aph]

I'm using these LED's for dash lights look cool but be careful Julian LED's are dependant on amperage not voltage. The ring LED's should be 3-4v and 20-35mA which is controlled by the type of batteries used in the keyfobs (internal resistances) in our case this needs to be controlled with an a resitor etc. The LED life will be drastically reduced if you don't use a current limiting resistor. Look up current limiting resistors and LED's there's a few websites with online calculators for the resistor value. If you use them for dash lights just put an adjustable resistor in and you can control the brightness.

[SteveP]

Paul22uk,

 

Not wishing to hi-jack this thread, but if you are using IE then pictures are controlled by a setting:

 

Click Tools -> Internet Options

Scroll down to Multimedia

Check the box saying Show Pictures

Uncheck the box saying Show image download placeholders

 

Hopefully that should sort it

 

SteveP

[Paul22uk]

steve

 

thanks for the advice ! i have check my setting and that is how thay are set !

 

any other ideas Please

 

[not wishing to hijack thread either] its just really annoying me now !

[paulyb]

I've got exactly the same problem - can't view the images.

Also have the above settings already.

Obvoiusly doesn't like Pauls!

[Lagartija]

I think you need Vector Graphics Rendering installed.

[Red SLR]

Nice, I want to fit BMW Halo lights from a 5 series in mine, before anyone else does..... its MY idea I tell you!! MIIIIINE. (going for a lie down now.)

 

X777CAT

[Paul22uk]

Paul i hopes it not the case of it doesn't like pauls ! Lagartija where can i get this Vector Graphics Rendering installed from !?

[Lagartija]

Oops, sorry, I must have sounded as if I know something.

I don't know where it comes from; Win Me just popped a window up and asked if I wanted it installing.

Best hope a PC type chappie comes along soon.

[Julian Thompson]

Can't understand why you chaps can't view the pics? I can mail them to you if needed.

 

APH - thanks for this info although I don't understand at this stage; I am an auto electrician, not an electronics engineer.

 

My understanding thus far is that a series connected bulb will run at half voltage because the resistance is doubled; the fact is that the LED is not a bulb, it is a diode, and I presume that you mean the normal application of electrical practise isn't applicable? Can't get my head around this yet, but maybe that's why I don't work at NASA for a living!

 

If it helps, here are my findings and the rationale behind the method that I've used;

 

1) My LED's must be different from yours. The LED runs in the keyfob torch at 6V, not the 3V you suggest - it is powered by 2x3V batteries in series. I have measured this with my DVM with the LED in the torch. I tried a 6V LED accross a 12V battery and it blew within a second, so I am sure that if you were right about my LED's being 3V then the 6V they are getting would cook them immediately.

 

2) The LED I have used to halve the voltage is a 12V LED off my dad's shelf. When connected in series with the Ring 6V LED (with the 12V closer to the +ve supply) the 12V LED is half as bright as normal and the Ring LED is exactly the same brightness as when it is in the torch, and......

 

3) The voltage accross the Ring LED in my system is 6V; I have measured it with a DVM; if the voltage is right, then how can the LED be under more load?

 

My experience with LED's in the car alarm trade is that if you've got it wrong, you'll know about it, the second you switch on!

[JonP]

Hi Julian,

 

The LED is a type of diode which emits light when its forward biased. This starts to occur when the applied voltage is greater than 2V(approximately). Above 2V, the diode is not perfect and has a forward resistance which limits the current, BUT, this resistance will only be a few ohms, so as an example, if you apply 4 volts to your LED, you get 2V across the diode leaving 2V across, say, a couple of ohms...or 1A! In the Ring torch the batteries will have a resistance of a few ohms, and so when combined with the LED the current will be limited to something semi reasonable, probably a few 100 milliamps or so, rapidly decreasing as the battery gets caned and the LED gets hot! The reliablity will not be a strong point!

 

To safely use the LED as a sidelight you must have a series resistor to limit the current to a safe value under all conditions. Say you choose 50mA as an operating current for the LED (which is a middle of the road value for most LEDs), the limiting resistor will need to pass 50mA at 14V(battery voltage)-2V(for the LED forward drop), when the alternator is on stream, or 12Volts. So the resistor needs to be V/I=R, or 12/0.05 = 240 ohms. Say 220 ohms as the nearest common value. The power in the resistor will be V^2/R or 144/220, about 0.5W, so you need a one watt rated resistor.

 

So there you have it...use just one white LED per sidelight and put a 1W 220ohm resistor in series.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cheers

 

JonP

 

Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber....

[JonP]

Hi again Julian,

 

Found some real data on white LEDs on the web....the forward drop is actually 3.5 to 4V, so about double what I quoted (which is typical of a green LED). Also the max recommended current of these ultra bright LEDS is typically 30mA. So, ideally the resistor value needs to be 330ohms 1W to be totally safe, ie V/I=R, V=14-4=10, I=0.03, R=330ohms.

 

However, it appears that most users of these LEDs run them outside the recommended ratings, basically trading life for brightness, just as you do with a conventional lamp.

 

I guess the message is, you DO need a resistor to make the current predictable, but the exact amount of current is governed by 1) how bright the LED must be to achieve a satisfactory side light, 2) how long you expect the LED to last.

 

If you adhere to the manufacturers ratings the life is 100,000 hours, so you can run the things very bright before you start to get life times as short as a conventional lamp.

 

Best regards

 

JonP

 

Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber....

[Julian Thompson]

Jon

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain this! Is there any way of calculating how long the LEDS will last as they stand?

[JonP]

Hi Julian,

 

You would need to measure the current accurately by inserting a DVM (on at least (!)the 1 amp current range) in series with the LED(s). You would need to have the alternator 'on stream' so you get a realistic figure as the current will change noticeably with battery voltage. I suspect you might be surprised, the current could be several 100 mA or maybe more, hence the '1A current range at least' comment. Then you would need to get the graph of life verses current from the LED manufacturer, which might be on the web, but you would need to get Ring's supplier out of them and that might be difficult. The problem is these white LEDs are quite new and it seems there is a lot of competition between manufacturers with characteristics which vary widely, so you can't just take a typical case, as you might be able to with say a red device. That was the mistake I made in my first posting!

 

When they talk about life, its generally the life for the LED to achieve half brightness, ie the half life. Looking at some of the sites which sell LED upgrades for torches (put 'white LED' in Google to find these) it seems that currents of 100mA will degrade the life to around 100hours, before a noticeable dimming of the LED occurs. In other words not very long.

 

I think the simplest route is to try a resistor value (330ohms) which sets the current to 30mA, which should be pretty safe and then see how bright the sidelight is. Keep adding resistors in parallel (so the current goes up in steps of 30mA, 30,60,90, etc until the brightness you need is achieved. If at this point the current is less than 100mA then the solution is probably useable, but above that I suspect you will be changing LEDs every few weeks if you use your lights very much!

 

If you want, email me direct and I could arrange testing some LEDs for you.

 

Cheers

 

JonP

 

 

 

Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber....

[scooby dooby doo]

surely the indicators are only on for a VERY short time though? might 100 hours be ample?

 

HOOPY CYCLE WINGS CUCUMBER

[Julian Thompson]

Dave;

 

we are on about the sidelights here, not the indicators, which are absolutely fine as they're not LED's.

 

Another idea would be to fettle the switch so that the sidelamps go out when the main lights are on. That way you'd only need to use the LED's when the car is in for MOT or when you leave it on a road in a dodgy place (never?)

 

So far, mine have been fine.

[scooby dooby doo]

ah! i did think that might be the case after i wrote it...

 

hmmm... you know you could...

damn! you had the same idea as well ❗ - turn off the sidelights when on main beam

 

HOOPY CYCLE WINGS CUCUMBER

[JonP]

Hi yet again,

 

More digging has yielded the following:

 

Maplin sell an ultra bright white LED for £2.99. Its made by Nichia, never heard of them, but they have a web site and you can download the data for their device.

 

It appears these 'white' LEDs are in fact a 'blue' LED (or more likely 'ultra violet' LED) with a phosphor layer, which emits white light. This is why the forward voltage drop is very high, same as a blue LED in fact!

 

The scary bit is they publish a 'life' figure for their device running at its maximum current (30mA) and it's only 1000 hours. I'll email you the datasheet (saves you registering with Nichia). Anyway I guess that the life is so short because its not the life of the LED bit, but the life of the phosphor coating.

 

The white LEDs were developed for back lighting colour displays in mobile phones, so I suppose life is not an issue, however the usefulness as side lights might be limited! ☹️

 

Cheers

 

JonP

 

Back Sevening again! (with apologies to Andy Webber....