Joachim Westermann Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 English customer asks me for carbon wings - kevlar inside layered wings. I can offer them for Rear wings: GBP 489,-/pair Front wings: GBP 189,-/pair I will send complete sets free to UK or I bring them to the Caterham Festival. Also we can deliver in herring bone weave, Linen weave or carbon-kevlar. To my carbon page: http://www.mog-racing.de/Carbon/parts.htm To my seat page: http://www.mog-racing.de/Carbon/seats.htm To the secial parts page: http://www.mog-racing.de/Carbon/special.htm I can deliver in a short time. www.mog-racing.de joachim@mog-racing.de Regards Joachim Edited by - Joachim on 30 Aug 2002 12:03:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul22uk Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Cheeky thread hijack ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 Joachim, So thats £416.17 net of VAT? What material thickness/plies are your wings and are the bits which do not show eglass?? Are they moulded off carbon tooling? Are they as "improved by MOG Racing" as your flywheels?????......(have a good look at the wording on the pedal box cover) Please DO NOT hijack my thread again. Commercial advertising is not permitted on Blatchat. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 14:27:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Arnie, compete on quality/value please, but I fail to see the relevance of VAT or where this would fall foul of the "Commercial" adds are banned concept. Can someone point me to the bit that says "Commercial advertising is not permitted on Blatchat". Not that I'm thinking of posting anything, just interested. I can see you being a bit miffed on the hyjack front ... Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 Greg, There is no VAT on the wings I am making. Any imported goods of this type, would subject to VAT. Can someone point me to the bit that says "Commercial advertising is not permitted on Blatchat". Not that I'm thinking of posting anything, just interested. How about this from the "register" link at the top of this page. "You agree not to post any advertising, URL's with affiliate id's or tracking numbers or anything which actively promotes a site or company." I am miffed because i am not doing this for profit. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 14:44:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Fair enough Arnie - I read that bit, but obviously need to brush up on my reading skills. Not being an expert I think that things are not subject to vat if they are sold subject to an EU sales tax. Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 What's the difference between herring bone and linen weave? What are the ones being produced by Arnie? Curious. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 @ Fat Arnie - you have some problems? The flywheel was the flywheel from my standard JPE Engine (SWINDON). Sorry - my English is bad. Now we use a own flywheel. We produce the carbon parts not commercial. Marius wrote here: "He´s doing that Caterham thing just for hobby and to finance his Caterham racing, not to earn his living with it." You forgot? Do you also race with Caterhams or you only make doughnuts with your car? ;-) Do you think that all what you do is perfect and all what other people do is a piece of ****? We produce the seats and carbon parts in our free time. If you can read - I wrote the price. All our customers love our carbon parts. The are very cheap, very good quality, looking good, and are very light. And they are MADE IN GERMANY! :-) My friend who build the parts make glass fibre and carbon parts in racing more than 25 years. So he build for Team Freisinger the FIA GT Porsche carbon parts. Also a lot of carbon parts for the Porsche factory, for airplanes, etc. Take it or leave it. Doug Newman love and bought my parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 So you may only be making them in your spare time, but are you doing them to the love of fellow members of the L7C, or for profit???? If you are reselling them through Doug Newman, I think that could be hard to defend as non-commercial. If your posting is commercial, it should not be on Blatchat, if your psoting is non-commercial, I think it is somewhat disrespectful and completely out of synergy with the generally very positive attitude of this forum. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 17:24:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangers quotNquot Mas1697456953 Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 And I thought the German's only pinched peoples sun-beds 😬 Andy Marks vhpd7@btclick.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 OK, I said that my english is not good. I am sorry for not tranlating the "register" link at blatchat. Here is a forum sale and wanted. If I sale a car or a used part.....? Money is flowing. Sometime you can make a good deal. You understand what I mean? You offer here carbon parts for 600 Pounds. I think this price is to high! So the boys who build "your" parts make the big profit, probably because you are incompetent offer your friends here cheap and good parts. (Maybe if you sell 11 sets the 12th is free? ;-)) So I write the price for my parts. They are after all 20% cheaper than yours!! (Include my small profit) And the best: They are 20% cheaper if somebody ask for one set or for only one if somebody need spare parts. If somebody order 12 sets................ :-P wow! If nobody buy my parts - bad luck. Why you boycott my parts? Are you also one of the underdevelopeds who think that GB is not a part from Europe, or do you have only problems with Germans? Arnie, I repeat: My english ist bad I am sorry. Your post about my flywheel is very stupid and arrogant. Maybe you can laugh at this. Sorry, I can not. Edited by - Joachim on 30 Aug 2002 18:12:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Watch where you're going ! You know where germans annexing things, got us last time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 A German calling a Brit arrogant - Now I have heard it all. As for my pricing: My pattern costs: £150 per wing Tooling costs: £800 per wing (labour £300, materials (100% carbon) £500) Cost to produce each wing £220 (materials 4 plies 200gms herringbone plus 1 ply Kevlar - £90 Labour to prepare tool, lay up + autoclave, trim and polish (4 hours @ £32.50) ) Total cost £7180 £600 per pair is equal to £7200 x 12 - so the extra £20 covers my petrol money. Tell me, if the Germans are so good at everything, and can do it at the lowest cost, why is it that it is a British company outsourced (by McLaren) to build the carbon monocoque for the Mercedes SLR - and strangely enough these same guys are making the rear wings for me? Staying on the Mercedes theme, why is it then that a C Class Merc is less expensive than a S Class or are quality and features two more words absent from your Englisch dialogue?? Whatever.......My wings are an S Class, yours are a Smart. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 19:24:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Arnie, Vehr gut pissing match - ve hav vays of making better vings van you!!! Adolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Adolf, On the way to Parliament today I picked up the Times from my usual street urchin who pointed me to the 'For Sale' section which contained an advertisement from a English man with a foreign name ... I think Arjie. I believe this immigrant may be be trying to undermine your export programme.....please let me know if this is the case and I will ensure that our people take care of the situation. Very best wishes, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Joachim, Don't take Arnie too seriously. Arnie, Joachim's english is not brilliant stop winding him up, and tell me why your wings are so much better - I don't give a t*** who makes Merc stuff - they are not doing too well are they! Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Greg, In the article in the Times, Joachim did not claim his wings to be better...or am I mistaken? W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 Greg, I am not into justifying why the wings I am having made are better. They cannot be made better (at the price or otherwise) anywhere, especially in a country where local arrogance has pushed the labour rate upso much. This is because the lamination is by one of the UK's most respected CF laminators Dean Legg. What I object to is the commercial hijacking of an honest thread I started to help other Seven owners. If Joachim believes he is not acting in a commercial sense, then I am rather surprised by the content of his website. Seems to me like he's beem tipped off that there's an opportuntity to undercut here. End of subject. Anyone else who is interested I will only be communicating on this subject by phone or email. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Arjie, Meine kleine Joachim's gear sounds gut!!! You sounds like a pain in de Netherlands Best regards, Adolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyedwardc Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 What's wrong with undercutting? sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 OK I'll make you some for £300 Gary. They'll look like **** though. Nice to see you are being as controversial a **** as usual....... Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM site See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 21:57:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Should you not be responding in German Arnie Home of BDR700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Have either of you actually seen/touched/examined the others' product 🤔 HOOPY CYCLE WINGS CUCUMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 Edited by - fat arnie on 30 Aug 2002 23:01:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I think it´s just a matter of what reason you´re going to buy the carbon wings. I do not doubt that Arnie´s source is gonna build the most perfect & lightest wings at all but also at a higher price (which is o.k. for extraordinary quality). Let´s describe them as the 110% solution. We should give credit to Arnie that he´s going into efforts and risk to get some wings produced. The wings Joachim is doing are definitly worth the money, too, and are definitly matching the quality of the OEM Caterham parts but at a more affordable price. This would be the normal (100%) solution. My view: If you just want some nice carbon wings on your car, get Joachims. Maybe you´re using your 7 quite a lot on the track and the wings will get ripped off after half the season. Doesn´t hurt this much with the cheaper ones. Joachim needs quite some nose-cones within one year in the Eurocup... If you have a high-end Q-tip-cleaned 7 (similiar to mine ) you should consider buying one of Arnies wings. Obviously the market won´t see any wings getting better than them. It´s similiar to my business I´m in: you pay amount x for a product being 100% perfect. But you´ll have to pay the amount x two times, if you want the same thing being 110%. And now please turn that Adolf-**** off Carbon parts for everyone under the christmas tree! Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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