Steve T Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Dry sump otions for the 1.8K in and SV. 1) CC belltank version (loads of money c £1,900) unfitted 2) CC external tank option (cheaper at about £1,125) unftted What other options are there, Pace, ??? Can anyone shed any advice on pros and cons of each version and value for money v performance on each please. Tank sizes, scavenge pump differences etc Any advice gratefully receieved. Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 If you want to keep the car original FIT a CC version It uses an external scavenge pump and the engines own internal oil pump. The Pace version uses a 3 stage external pump 2 scavenge and one pressure with an external tank A Brise kidney tank fits nicely in front of engine on the Pace system I'm biased as I have had a Pace system for many years, indeed one of the first they made Your choice there are pros and cons with both jj MTM , N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. 240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Pace 3 stage system with a Pace easiclean tank located in a short passenger footwell Top quality kit, and service I opted for this over the CC version based on previous use of Pace kits on the Rally cars we used to build - and 100% reliability, also the increased capacity and additional pick up point on the scavenge side. Too young to be old ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Ditto for PACE & I echo what the others have said. I too use the Brise kidney tank. There are big advantages in the duel scavenge arrangement plus the tank is big enough to supply oil in all situations. See here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thanks. The PACE seems a popular and cheaper option. Can I fit the non Brise tank in front of (ie engine side) of the passenger footwell in an SV ? Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 You can probably fit a wooly-mammoth in the engine-bay of an SV... (flippant-remark!) 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam3s Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Steve, i would be interested in the prices you have for pace, as all i could find out was that the PACE system was more than the Caterham bellhousing option, i think the PACE is £1600 + Tank + Vat I have managed to source a nearly new 2nd hand remote tank system for less than half that price... but i will sell it all if the PACE system is not far off. J J7BYY Kwak Green SLR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 J When I find out i will BM you. Anyone know the correct size hose clamp for a wooly mammoth trunk ? What sort of vacuum do you think it could create ? Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I have the Pace pump with Brise kidney tank on an SV and the tank fits in front of the engine, not the pax footwell. It holds more oil than the Caterham bellhousing tank, which also has the disadvantage of obliging you to use a clutch release arm which is notoriously failure-prone. The only weak point with the Pace system is that it uses a flat drive belt which has no protective case, so if you are unlucky and get a stone between the belt and pump pulley, you may break the belt, and the first you'll know is the engine going bang. I was concerned about this so built a protective case. Pace also do two belt widths, I use the wider one. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 UF Do you have any pics of your install ? Also, do you know the capacity of the kidney tank ? Edited to add £1,164 plus vat for the Pace system excluding tank at another £220 ish plus vat. (More than the CC ext tank option). Cheers Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Edited by - Steve T on 11 Nov 2009 22:49:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Pace dry-sump installation instructions: here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 an alternative to the Pace/ Caterham conundrum (and maybe combining the best of both) is to track down an MGF Cup car setup. These ran with a twin scavenge pump (toothed belt off the front pulley, with a plastic cover so no sh1t gets in) feeding the existing K-series pressure pump via a tank. Main advantage is you have oil pressure whenever you have revs, ie don't lose pressure on belt failure as per Pace, and have twin scavenge which is 1-up on the CC install. The MGF system was made in very small numbers, and it so happens I have one about to go on sale......PM me if interested *tongue* Martin supersported ex-Roadsports B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 One of the advantages of a DS system is that the oil runs much cooler. However, with the tank in the bell housing this feature seems to be negated. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think Norman might have a point and the bell housing tank might run SLIGHTLY hotter than a seperate tank although this could be due to the total oil capacity (less in the bell tank) as much as anything else. However make no mistake when on track a bell tank DS K will run it's oil substantially cooler than a wet sump car with an apollo, to the tune of 20 degrees. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I am running a CC dry sump with external tank. If you go down this route it would buy everything from CC except the hoses and the tank. The tank can be bought from pace and you can ask for a temprature bose put in. This allows you to moniter your oil temp from a sensable place. Also the tank location is better than the pace system IMO. the hoses: you can use CC hoses but i did not like the route they took so got diffrent ones made up. you will need to shorten the pasanger foot well but easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 David, Sunds like a good option. What is involved in losing the extended footwell, what would I need to do, apart from find somewhere to replace my battery !! I have a heater so no room there, or anywhere on scuttle shelf, where did you relocate your battery ? Cheers Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Removing the extended footwell is just a matter of drilling out about eight pop-rivets and front extended piece comes away. The resulting hole can then be covered over by a flat piece of aluminium (Caterham will sell you this). My battery sits where your heater is. I used simple rubber oil pipe with push on fittings from Think Automotive; you can cut the pipe to the correct length and make them up yourself (although the push on fittings take a lot of force to get on). Unlike Caterhams suggestion I ran the pipes around the front of the engine as it seemed neater and more obvious and the car has run find like that for the last five(?) years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 So now I have removed passenger footwell, relocated battery in front of heater, the next bit i need to sort out is to order the DS kit. I am going to buy the CC external tank kit. I will buy the tank from Pace. What I need to decide upon now is: 1) What size tank do I buy from Pace (5L 6.5" dia or 7L 8.5" dia- the 5L seems to come in 2 heights but same diameter). 2) Remember to ask for a temp boss to be put in tank (anything else ?) 3) Decide what type of hoses are the best - push fit, SS braided ??? from Think or Pace ??? and which are the best connectors ?? 4) How to route the hoses (this will dictate the length of course : options seem to be over the bellhousing or round the front of the engine. 5) Presume I need a catch tank - size 1L OK ? Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 and decide weather to run the system vented or sealed............ .........opens another can or worms Too young to be old ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I brought the simple rubber oil pipe and press on fittings from Think Automotive about/five years ago and the pipes/fittings have given no issues - they don't look 'pretty' but that doesn't bother me. At the time I took the sump pan & pump into them, brought the tank from them and asked for pipes/fittings to connect it all. On mine the return pipe runs up from an (120deg?) angled fitting from the pump up to the cross rails the water header tank sits on and then along the top chassis rail (that the bonnet sits on) to the tank. The feed from the tank runs along the rail under the exhaust manifold, along the lower cross rails and then uses a 90deg(?) fitting onto the front of the sump pan. If you want some pictures let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The route of the pipes is best if they are kept as "flat" as possible. My original pipes went the shortest route over the bell housing (from pump to tank). I changed them so they now go around the front. The feed to the pump goes across the steering rack platform and along the lower chassis rail. The return goes, via oil stat and oil cooler, and along the upper chassis rail to the top of the tank. The tank is in front of the passenger footwall. The difference is that I now don't get air in the feed pipe. The tank does level it self with the sump but the pipe is full of oil when not running. The pump scavenges the sump in a matter of seconds. For what it's worth I have fitted a sight glass to the outside of the tank and can see the oil level. I've marked the tank with FULL (1" below the baffle) and 1 litre levels below that. So much easier to keep to the correct level. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBL Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 2) Remember to ask for a temp boss to be put in tank (anything else ?) Maybe a drain plug/valve, if it doesn't come with one as standard. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Has anyone dealt with Pace recently? I had to 18 months ago and they were simply awful. Improved 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve T Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Allen, Some pics would be a great help. Norm, How did you do the sight glass thing ? What pipe spec amd fittings did you use ? So it is accepted that around the front of the engine is prefered, ditch the pipes supplied by CC (not bought yet) and get your own made up, presumably use something as a measuring template and tell Think what to length to make. Just got to work out what angle fittings required. I had assumed the tank came with a drain plug but good point, I will check ! Steve Now with DVA Power! 191bhp and 150.9 lbft torque. My Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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