myothercarsa2cv Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Has anyone converted their Caterham to run on anything other than Petrol? Having a read of the Test and Tune section of Hotrod I came across this (better pictures in Hotrod). I've not seen E85 at any pumps, but then I'm not looking. Considering the power gain to be had, something where you can stick whatever grade of fuel you like in the tank and the computer adjusting the fuelling to suit would be quite nifty! John _________________________ myothercarsa2cv Bugsy: '82 2cv6 😬 Talloulah '08 1.6K Classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I think the PalmerSport cars run on LPG. They have modified chassis to hold the tank - I've seen them in Arch before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Simon Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 At the risk of being fastidious... Although there might be some merit to the claims made on the "White Racing and Marine" web site, the following statement makes me wonder about the level of understanding these folks publicize: If you don't know already, E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline where the pump gas we buy at the pumps has always been 90% gasoline and 10% Ethanol since the 50's or so. Many people are not old enough to remember the old saying at the gas station when they said "fill it with ethyl" which back in those days they added the Ethanol to increase the octane instead of the chemical they were using which was highly toxic and eventually outlawed. The "ethyl" in motor fuel of that era was tetra-ethyl lead, added as an anti-knock agent, not ethanol. The introduction of ethanol came many years latter as a half 🙆🏻ed attempt to "oxygenate" fuels for smog reduction. That being said, I've often wondered about running straight methanol. Power and engine life would be considerably improved, although a Seven sized tankfull wouldn't get you very far. -Bob 94 HPC VX Evo III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 What do they run F1 cars on? I was offered 20ltrs of the stuff the other day, dated to 2010. Apparently it makes a tin top run very crisp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Bill Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I understand that it is a 'perfect' blend of the higher octane pump stuff, mostly made in a shed in Cheshire. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Bathurst 1000km race last weekend was all fuelled by Ethanol. Hence they had to refuel 6 times !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The lubricity (is that the right word?) of ethanol based fuels is a lot lower. What does that do for engine life? Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Simon Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The lubricity of gasoline is almost nill as well. That's why it makes a good solvent. Engine life is greater with alcohol due to it's charge cooling effect. Things don't get as hot at high power levels. How about 350BHP from an 8 valve 2.7ltr. engine, naturally aspirated? Here -Bob 94 HPC VX Evo III Edited by - Bob Simon on 13 Oct 2009 13:21:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Lotus bio Elise had higher BHP and ran cooler so I guess you can play with the engine tuning and boost pressure too if you run a turbo or supercharger. I think you may need different pipes(?) and I guess the mapping gets quite complex as the ECU has to work out the proportion of bio fuel and then adjust everything accordingly. The theory looks straightforward but I guess in practice it can get expensive and time consuming pretty quickly... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 A friend of mine has an old Massey Ferguson, which runs on petrol, but once it's warm, you open a valve to run it on parrafin. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSedlacek Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The problem with the ethanol fuels is that it absorbs water from the atmosphere, which then corrodes the fuel system. F1 petrol meets the requirements of premium unleaded petrol, with no more than 2.5% oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Is aviation fuel similar the F1 fuel then? 'Have you any idea what it's like to have the wind rushing through your hair!' (Quote:Sq Cdr the Lord Flashheart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Bill Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 No different stuff. That is made by the bucket load and sent down pipes from a different shed. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 😬 Anyone know what aviation fuel's constituent parts are? 'Have you any idea what it's like to have the wind rushing through your hair!' (Quote:Sq Cdr the Lord Flashheart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Paraffin? Edit for a bit of Wiki: Avgas Main article: Avgas Avgas is a high-octane fuel used for aircraft and racing cars. The term Avgas is a portmanteau for aviation gasoline, as distinguished from mogas (motor gasoline), which is the everyday petroleum spirit used in cars. Avgas is typically used in aircraft that use reciprocating or wankel engines. [edit] Jet fuel Main article: Jet fuel Jet fuel is a clear to straw colored fuel, based on either an unleaded paraffin oil (Jet A-1), or a naphtha-kerosene blend (Jet B). It is similar to diesel fuel, and can be used in either compression ignition engines or turbine engines. Energy content The net energy content for aviation fuels depends on their composition. Some typical values are:[1] * BP Avgas 80, 44.65 MJ/kg, density at 15 C is 690 kg/m3 * Kerosene type BP Jet A-1, 43.15 MJ/kg, density at 15 C is 804 kg/m3 * Kerosene type BP Jet TS-1, (for lower temperatures) 43.2 MJ/kg, density at 15 C is 787 kg/m3 Jon Edited by - jonboylaw on 15 Oct 2009 17:54:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 When folk talk about using 'AVGAS' they mean the stuff used in piston engined aircraft not Jet A-1 etc. Jet A-1 will run happily in 2 stroke diesels and OK in older conventional diesels but the new modern diesels do not like it very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 So, am I right in thinking that when pre-war GP cars ran on methanol (is that pure methanol or petrol methanol mixed) it is similar to AVGAS piston engined fuel? I seem to remember that cars running on methanol also tended to use Cartrol-R, mineral engine oil. They also leave a white powdery deposit around the inlet trumpets. Sorry if I'm being a bit slow here but t's a bit confusing. 'Have you any idea what it's like to have the wind rushing through your hair!' (Quote:Sq Cdr the Lord Flashheart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Avgas is basically just heavily leaded high octane petrol - similar to old five-star, I would guess. The normal "100LL" (LL for Low Lead) contains four times as much lead as the old four star petrol. We used to use it in two-stroke race bikes, which was a pain because there was tax to pay for non-air uses, but there was no mechanism in place to pay the tax. Hence it was necessary to find an understanding air field who didn't mind filling 10 jerry cans for "offsite aircraft engine testing". The more recent two-strokes used high octane unleaded - less lead but more toluene and benzene. Whether that was greener or not depends on which you consider cumulative neuro-toxins to be better or worse than carcinogens in the environment. I guess the carcinogens will break down faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Try Hyperion, they once told me that all their cars were running on ethanol (or something very similar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight fart Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 My brother inlaw converted his VX Westfiled to run on gas, (he's now a Caterham owner ) A7 RDP pics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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