lets talk about cornering....

[Mark Durrant]

I heel and toe and it works well at Llys y Fran 😬

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[paul jacobs]

Well, that's heel'n'toeing done with , what about left foot braking? I've found there are a few places, mainly going into a tight corner, where you don't have to drop a gear, like the first left hander at Wiscombe for instance, where you can keep your foot on the accelerator, but still modulate the brakes with the left foot, it also gives better front end bite, due to weight transferance - any thoughts?

[Peter Carmichael]

it also gives better front end bite, due to weight transferance

 

Are you sure?

[millsn]

Oooh you've started something here...every man and his dog will be along! I'm no hill climber so feel free to take this with a pinch of salt. Every time I've done a trackday I've gonie out and enjoyed myself first, then half way through the day taken some instruction. It is always a revelation what extra speed I can carry once I'm using the right lines. If I were you I wouldn't be trying to carry more speed just yet. Seems to me you could spend time getting the lines right at a safer speed with passenger instruction wherever possible. Then you can add the aggression referred to above. One key thing I have picked up along the way is that your tyres have the most grip just as you enter the corner, this means that on turn-in you can afford to turn the wheel far faster than you could otherwise expect. to make the most of this you need to be wide on entry to the corner. All the other stuff seems to follow from getting this right which starts with the best lines.

[david nelson]

I thought your left foot was for braking? then your right then heal and toe.

 

David

[bstark]

Skydragon - if you are new to sprinting, and the course, then firstly I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. I've never been to Harewood but it doesn't look very forgiving, compared to a circuit such as Brands (a very good place to start going fast) or even Lydden (plenty of hard things to hit).

 

When I look at your third video you look to be coming off the throttle too early, braking too gently, then trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corner, whilst missing your lines (the pair of these giving your understeer) and giving yourself lots of work to do on the exit, hence the oversteer.

 

That probably sounds quite critical, BUT - you're learning! This means there is plenty of room for improvement and the advice above all sounds sensible to me. Just bear in mind these are very experienced, committed guys on track so you need to build up to it.

 

With sprinting, as someone said above, the lines are crucial - IMHO you will gain more time and understanding if you concentrate on learning the lines carfeully and improve by building up to braking later while keeping to the same lines until you know you can't really get away with braking any earlier - then start working on how much speed you can carry through the corner. Keep the exits smooth and try and get on the throttle as early as possible on the exit without breaking traction. After that you will improve by feel.

 

Two things that may help:

 

- If there's a Circuit Guide available, read it lots and lots. They are normally excellent primers for how to approach each corner.

 

- If you can beg, borrow or buy a Racelogic V-Box or similar datalogger you will see very quickly on screen how early and gently you are braking, if you are on and off the throttle in corners etc. and exactly how much speed you are carrying.

 

 

Simon's video was awesome to watch - he obviously knows the lines and his car very well and has a lot of skill, as well as a quick car. The bit to take from this is the lines and learning your car - don't try to emulate the speed just yet! (your car and tyres won't let you)

 

Good luck - and enjoy it!

 

Bob Stark

Supersprinter

[Simon.Rogers1]

Totally agree about the confidence thing Bob.

 

O know exactly how the car is going to react even if I've made a huge cock up so I'm ahead of the car in some respects pre empting the moment.

 

Lines are definately the thing. Let the car flow particularly on the way out of the corner. Its a favourite of beginers to hold the car to tight on exit. But again this comes from knowing what the car is about to do (or not) and therefore placement of the car on the correct line.

 

Back to set up here I'm afraid. You should be able to adjust the car to dial out understeer particularly on a hill. And once right it will remain that way until you start to get right to the upper limits of high speed corners on some of the faster sprint tracks. Then it will be time for an upgrade 😬

 

Lines,lines, lines, lines, li..................................................

 

 

Oh and don't mention Wiscombe 😳

[paul jacobs]

Oh, Sorry Simon, I forgot...................The gate wasn't it? 😔

[skydragon]

Again, thanks for the feedback, there is definately a common theme that I need to adapt to, of using my brakes far more and being more decissive with steering inputs, as well as getting the lines consitantly better. As Bob summed it up >>I'm coming off the throttle too early, braking too gently, then trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corner, whilst missing your lines and is a real eye opener) it's interesting to note the lines he takes through the 2nd set of bends (esses/chippys), the fifth bend (orchard) and the final bend (quarry) are quite different to the suggested 'ideal' lines at the school. I'm not suggesting for a moment that one method is right and the other wrong, but Simon has obviously found a good set of lines that work for him and his car, which appear to folow a shorter path through the bend than the school's marker cones indicate.

 

If you can beg, borrow or buy a Racelogic V-Box or similar datalogger you will see very quickly on screen how early and gently you are braking

 

I've already bought a AIM MyTach GPS datalogger and can see track map, split times, G-forces, etc in RaceStudio2 software. I've got my school runs logged as a starting point and should be able to compare subsequent runs at Harewood now to see where and how I'm making up (or loosing) time. I've split the harewood track into 13 sectors in the software, with split times, so I can compare each run on a corner by corner basis.

 

 

 

[Simon.Rogers1]

The second set of bends at Harewood were supposed to be driven without using the kerb. So we had all been told.

 

Then we all saw DSL one year and so I gave it a go 😶‍🌫️ But its not for the faint hearted and you have to get your inside wheel to grass. On the kerb won't do.

 

I also tend to drive a bit like DSL (Darren) steering with my right foot if you like so sometimes lines are not perfect. But the power is on hard!

 

To be honest it you think the lines are important on a Hill of any sort relative to a sprint at a wide track they are insignificant. The track is so narrow its difficult to mess up to much. Its more about knowing which way the hill goes and where the corner is.

 

That was my 4th time at Harewood so know it quite well now. Forget your times for the moment. Just enjoy the car and drive the hill in sectors in your head.

 

You should get to the point where you can drive every track and every corner perfectly in your head without looking at data or video.

 

I can

 

Its what stops me thinking of work.

 

If you want some Race studio data from me for Harewood you can but to be honest it will be of no value. Like me looking at Buttons data!

 

I find video far more informative than data. Stopped looking at it now other than to see how fast we are at a particular point.

 

My line into Quarry by the way should be discounted. I'm a little nervous after my first year there

[bstark]

Skydragon - if you'd like I can email you a trace line from a run at Lydden Hill that was as close that I've come to being perfect (apart from missing a gear that cost me a second, looking at the trace ).

 

My car's a similar power to yours and running on similar tyres so the trace would give you some idea of the relative acceleration and deceleration you would expect on a sprint. You can clearly see gearchanges (and the missed gear), trail braking and minor oversteer correction on corner exits just from the speed line.

 

Bob Stark

Supersprinter

[skydragon]

please do

[bstark]

YHM

 

Bob Stark

Supersprinter

[skydragon]

Following advice earlier in this thread i went ahead and bought the book Going Faster

Wow! what a book. I now realise further some of the basic cornering errors I was making and how (hopefully) to start overcoming them - I would strongly recommend this as an educational read for any Seven driver. *thumbup*

 

It is set out in a very understandable and logical way and rather than giving someone's view, experiences or a particular driving style, it tries to just present the clear facts and from an understanding of those facts, how a driver can optimise a car's performance via correct driver input.