jackb_ms Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi I have a very small leak between the water rail and the head. It is so small it's only when I restart the car it is noticeable because of the distinctive smell of burning coolant. But the leak is big enough for the cooling system not being able to pressurize therefore the engine is overheating. What is the best way to repair the leak? A small amount bead of silicone? Thank for your help Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 External silicone sealant won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Fit a new gasket - probably the best way to sort it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Soper Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Edited by - Brian Soper on 23 Mar 2009 12:51:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racingshoe Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I had this repeatedly on my old 1.4kSS engine. Make sure that the surface of the water rail (where it meets the head) is absolutely flat and free of old gasket residue. 10 mins with some wet&dry and a wooden block should be time well spent. My rail also had a very very small crack near the coolant temp sensor. Fixed it with some epoxy. Check that you don't have any secondary leaks before you are sure you've fixed it. ----- Rik Robarts - the future's bright, the future's orange here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 External silicone sealant won't help. I had to sort just such a leak late at night on the day before the monster-trog across to Emerald. What I did (didn't have any alternative) was to loosen the rail slightly and massage a *small* amount of the orange gasket-goo into the gap (not too much - you don't want it in the cooling system). It solved the problem at the time and continues to remain in situ three years later. I'll do a proper job next time the rail is off - but can't see the point until then. 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 That's quite different to 'an external bead of silicone'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 That's a very good idea Myles. I have some this orange goo somewhere. Did you had to remove the coolant also? Cheers Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevsta Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Jack, as above, the main issue is making sure the surface is flat and the same for the water rail. Then a nice new gasket and when I did mine I put a thin layer of sealant on all surfaces (I think I used hylomar). Hope this helps. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Did you had to remove the coolant also? No - this was the point. I'd 'finished' building the car at around 11PM and had to be on the road to Emerald at something crazy like 4-5AM the next day. I did not have the time or spare coolant to try and fix it properly. I only loosened the bolts slightly - just enough so that I could make a slight gap. There was a small amount of coolant-loss of course while I did this, but nothing significant. 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Edited by - Myles on 23 Mar 2009 17:31:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Mine did this from new - and despite 2 gasket changes it still dripped. Redline worked out that there was a pin hole in the weld between rail and flanges - they sealed this with lead and it has been fine since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If the water rails been removed in the past (or if you decide to remove it yourself now) to fit a new gasket. The trick is to tighten the gasket bolts first, and then if you have a gap on the bracket at the bolt towards the front of the engine, space it out with some washers. That way, you know you've got a good seal at the gasket, and you won't stress the whole thing. The water rail is rarely straight. Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The cause of this leak has 3 possible causes. Firstly ensure the water rail is not cracked, then ensure the mounting face on the water rail is flat and finally shorten the fixing bolts as they can bottom out in the cylinder head bolt holes. Mine leaked as a result of the latter two. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Jack - had the same problem myself with an old rail on the new eu3 head. Also - the bolts to the head were too long and not nipping up properly (think oily told me about this problem). New rail with a bigger flange, new bolts of the right length, new gasket and hey presto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks for all the information gentlemen. I will try the bolt first and check if this resolve it until the car comes back from having its new exhaust. What is the torque those bolts should be tighten at? I am planning to replace the rad soon, so I could fix that properly then. Dave, to replace the radiator, do is it easier to remove the bonnet? Cheers Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Edited by - jackb_ms on 24 Mar 2009 11:03:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 jACK WILL CHECK TORQUE TONIGHT BUT IT WILL BE LIGHT - SMALL BOLTS / ALLY HEAD (Sorry caps lock on ), and another tip to add to the rest - the standard gasket is very thin. I replaced mine with 1mm thick gasket cut to shape from a sheet after my origional went at Cadwell a few years ago - Temps and coolant all over the place, major panic (HGF!!!), trailed home, panic calls to Oily, new gasket, refill all OK. Paul M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Dohhh! 😳 😳 Forgot my promise - sorry will post tonight. Paul M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Jack, We changed the rad in Kates car without taking the bonnet off. It's an easy job, much easier I suspect than re-fitting the bonnet!!! Gordon The name's Puff, Powder Puff N7XTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 No worries Paul I will probably spent the next few evening and weekend painting the house ☹️ Gordon Thank you for the info, I was thinking that the bonnet had to be removed for ease of access. Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 I had another investigation this morning with the engine running and the water leak is only a droplet which escaping from the water temperature sender which is closest to the back of the engine ( the one with only a single spade connector). Two questions: Why is there two water temperature sender ( engine EU2 VVC)? Can remove the one which is creating the leak and weld something to block the hole? Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 One goes to the engine management system and the other to the gauge. You should be able sort out the leak easily enough though. Solent Se7ens Web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Cheers Grubbster It must the sender for the gauge. I tryed some orange goo "Hernetite instant gasket" but the leak is still there. What else can I try? cheers Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Go for broke - replace the water rail! The holes are tapered i think and if the sender has been in and out over time, it may well not be making a good enough seal. sounds like you might have a leak at the flange at the back where the rail joins the head too. If it's the same setup as my old water rail, the early ones have a far smaller contact area with the head... There was only 2mm of gasket pinched between the head and the rail on mine. Seriously though Jack - I spent YEARS chasing these problems on my car (as you know full well when i emptied the contents of my cooling system into your face via the exhaust somewhere in deepest oxfordshire). Don't temporarily fix the problem, get it sorted properly. If it's worrying you, then new water rail, new gasket, correct bolts into the head (so they're nipping up tight properly) and check all your other hoses for any problems. Destruction of the ones by the heater on/of valve over time can cause problems too - not visible unless they're under load + temperature (and hence pressure). I was getting a problem that ONLY appeared under cornering - the hoses were flexing and opening up a minuscule hole at Cadwell. I couldn't duplicate the problem in my driveway, or even on the drive home, only under heavy cornering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dave I was looking at this option last night but the new water rail is different design. I will e-mail Darren and see if he can supply the bits. Cheers Jack PS: what are you doing the weekend after next? Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 just ask for an eu2 water rail with the integral sender holes and the heater take-off. might be at a wedding. we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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