Gulfb Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Having just started to check over a few things on my new toy I went to check the oil only to find the garage had left the dipstick unscrewed just sitting on top! Further more it would seem that the thread seems to short to sit properly? Would I have done any damage to the engine driving it in this way (the journey back was some 180 miles)? How deep should the screw thread be? Any help very much appreciated. Regards - Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The chances of any oil being thrown out through the cooning tower is very slim, and you would certainly see the obvious if several litres had been ejected this way ! You say the thread is too short? Do you mean that it does not do up tightly? and still revolves even though it is tight by hand? If so then there is a O ring that sits in the dipstick cap and these do harden/deteriorate with age which allows the holder to rotate. The O ring kit is available from Caterham and is about £10 but includes the 3 other O rings that seal the conning tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfb Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for that. As you can guess this is all new to me however the dipstick does not seem to do up at all its as if the thread has sheard off but obviously no sign of this. Its just the thread looks so short probably .5cm? Would there have been any loss in oil pressure (what pressure is normal?) Whilst writing do you have a recommendation on oiland fill up proceedure? Thank you - Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Andrew the thread is only 6mm long so 5mm once the O ring is taken into consideration is correct. You should be a ble to feel it nip up as you tighten it and once it's done you can't lift it back out again. It has no effect on the oil pressure which should be circa 60 psi under load on the Stack dropping to a little under 30 psi on tickover. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Andrew To check the oil level run the engine to ensure any oil that has drained into the sump is sucked back up to the bell tank. Stop the engine and immediately dip the oil. Failure to start the engine could result in you over filling the oil and I know someone who did this and found next time they drove the car the catch tank quickly filled up and overflowed all over the scuttle . If when you check the level it only needs a small amount I fill via the filler cap on the cam cover. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hi Mark, I'm slightly puzzled by your post. If when you check the level it only needs a small amount I fill via the filler cap on the cam cover. By what other route would you add oil? especially if it needs a large amount? cheers Peter 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Peter Take the top off the conning tower Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Cheers, Mark Is your conning tower top a screw on type? Mine is held on by a lot of small allen bolts so I fill all my oil through the cam cover filler cap. P 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSL Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 6 speed, if you put your hand round the whole of that upper section of the coning tower where the allen bolts are & give it a firm twist, you will find that it will unscrew allowing you to pour oil in with great ease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 aha! thanks you for that. I had no idea the top still screwed off after the original was replaced. R500 Oil check. There is a guide somewhere, may be on Minister web site and there was a site called R500.com or something. It all amounts to engine at 50 degrees C, dip within 60 seconds of engine off - hence my process below. The level check question: I have a length of brass tube (maybe 2mm diameter), with marks made with a saw at 24 cm and I think 23 cm. Process is at every fill up, The hardest part was getting a saw and cut (mark) at 24cm - a kindly Spanish garage did that. engine still running hop out of car, brass rod in hand, remove bonnet remove dip stick, (no, oil won't go everywhere) engine off. dip with brass dipper, MAKE SURE that the dipper is actually right to the bottom of the tank as it's very easy to think it is when it isn't, give it a wiggle while moving up and down. Remove and read level. How much to put in? A bit too much and it will find its own level by ejecting into the catch tank. Gradually learn how much is needed by reference to the 24cm mark. I'm working on that. For years I had oil everywhere by always putting too too much in; much less messy these days. If the top comes right off you will have oil on your feet, socks, jeans etc and a nice scent of eau d'oil.(actually that was in a different car, but still dry sump). Likewise when over filling and the catch tank isn't very good at catching (like mine). I believe some add a second catch tank and seal the first. Blatchat folk have so far helped me not blow her up! So that's what I do. And tips are still very welcome. Welcome aboard :-) Anthony edit: and what you REALLY need to know is the length of the brass dipper. No one anywhere could tell me so I worked it out with an excessively long piece and some tape (and never measured it!) . I'll measure it and report back. oh and finally, make sure you use the brass dipper the right way up! Forget the built in dip stick - it was "ok" as regards didn't run out of oil, but.... I have forgotten to tighten the dip stick on occasion, it's embarrassing but that's all. Just check no one is looking and you will be ok. Also (admission coming up) I use a socket and spanner, socket touching castellations of the dip stick hand piece (not sure what to call it) when nipped up by hand, and tap socket with spanner, just nips it up tight - now I forget why I do that it has been so long (4+ years); reverse to remove. (Don't hit directly, it'll dent the alloy). Can't help wondering if it used to come loose... just can't remember. I would dearly value someone else confirming all the above as I am usually receiving advice not giving it! Edited by - anthonym on 23 Mar 2009 18:37:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Cheers DSL and Mark. I didn't realise it unscrewed like that. It was however FT ! Filling through the cam-cover cap is still a very easy way too. Ta P 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSL Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Filling via the cam cover maybe easy but its not the correct way to do it Doing it that way when you start the engine all the oil is in the sump & not in the bellhousing from where the oil pump draws its supply to the engine, which will remain empty until the started engine is turning the scavenge pump over thus returning the oil to the tank from where it can be drawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 DSL all the oil is in the sump & not in the bellhousing which will remain empty until the started engine is turning the scavenge pump ...Misleading text removed... When I change the oil in any of my cars I always ascertain that there is some oil pressure, whether that be by gauge or by the o/p w/light extinguishing, before allowing the engine to run under its own steam. added text... With my 7, I have (up 'til now) filled via the cam cover as instructed in the CC build manual... ...I then crank the engine with plugs out and get almost instant build up of oil pressure. The scavenge pump is also turning during this process. The CC build manual states "With all variants the engine oil should be filled via the screw cap on the top of the engine". The Options section where it explains build and installation of the dry sump states "Para 31 The engine oil should be filled via the screw cap on the top of the engine..." and "Para 32 Remove the cap from the cam cover and slowly pour in the oil allowing time for all the oil to run to the bottom of the engine..." Any other views on this? cheers Peter Edited following further discussion below. Read on..... 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Edited by - 6speedmanual on 24 Mar 2009 23:03:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSL Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 6speed- You have a far greater knowledge of the layout of the Caterham drysump system than I, hence as you say if you crank for pressure before a start no problems My main experience of drysump systems these days are in cars with Busa bike engines. These employ a remote tank where my above advice is likely to hold true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Most DS systems I've seen drain the oil from the tank into the sump when not running. This is not a problem as long as the oil in the tank isn't drained dry. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Peter, not quite right I'm afraid The pipe that runs from the bottom of the D/S tank to the sump isn't open to the sump. The casting is solid on the inside so that the flexible pipe flange mates directly with the engine oil pump pick up via a short tube with O rings on it. This means that the oil in the tank can ONLY go through the engine oil pump, filter and galleries before finishing up in the sump. If you put 5L into the engine it will NOT find it's way back into the D/S tank until the scavenge pump is running which in turn means starting the engine, which of course doesn't have any oil in it's pump or galleries until the scavenge pump sorts it out. In short if there's no oil in the D/S tank DO NOT start the engine before putting some (but not nessasarily all) directly into the tank. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Adrian Thanks for your input. Having revisited what I wrote I realise I did not think through the actual oil circuit/circulation which is basically a one way flow. I have edited out my incorrect and misleading words lest anyone else should be confused by them. I had a look at my car this evening. With the top of the "conning tower" unscrewed so I can see what is going on in there, I cranked the engine with the plugs out. By the second revolution of the engine, big slugs of oils are arriving in the tank from the scavenge pump. This would explain why the system self primes from oil poured into the sump via the cam cover. The initial oil pressure build up is from the residual oil in the transfer pipe quickly followed up by the volume of oil supplied by the scavenge pump even at slow cranking speed without the engine running. Whist achieving oil pressure after an oil change has never been a problem, I can definitely see the benefit of putting the fresh oil into the tank rather than the sump. This is what I will do at oil changes from now on. It does beg the question why the Caterham build manual does not recommend this filling method. I would have thought putting oil in the tank on a new build would be more important as there would not be any residual oil in the system, however with enough cranking, the system would still prime. Is this another case of ambiguous advice in the technical publications - like the recent discussion on jacking? Peter 6SpeedManual *tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Is this another case of ambiguous advice in the technical publications The CC DS fitting instructions are clear:- Final Assembly, item 9 'The belltank housing should be filled to approximately 10'' from the bottom with synthetic oil.....' Malcolm Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 24 Mar 2009 23:22:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Malcolm That sounds like a better instruction. Not featured in the Assembly Guide which was supplied with my car. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony1956 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 also explains where "my" 24 cm comes from. Often wondered in my darker moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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