More on Cats...

[Mike Molloy]

Found some interesting stuff on another motor club forum. One of the members asked for clarification on the new cat rule from the MSA:

 

Response from the MSA :

 

“The following regulation will be included in the 2009 Competitors’ Yearbook, with effect from 1.1.2009:

 

C(b) 22:

Exhaust catalytic converters must be fitted to all petrol engine production based saloon, touring and sports car, including specialist production and kit cars, manufactured after 31/12/1999. They may be specified for certain other formulae. Competitors are reminded of their obligation to maintain such equipment on a vehicle used on the highway where government legislation requires it.

 

It is intended that the first step will be a visual check and, if needed, a temperature check. If there is any doubt raised by these initial and simple checks then further examination can be carried out.”

 

Further clarification requested of whether the intention is that we are seen to have one "fitted" or if indeed it is expected to be "working"

 

Response from the MSA:

 

“Good Afternoon

The requirement will be that a catalytic converter be fitted and as always it is the competitors responsibility to ensure the safety and eligibility of his vehicle. Virtually all cats have a boss for a lamba sensor and removal of the sensor or blanking plug would give access to viewing the internals. Generally speaking scrutineers will use a visual commonsense approach.

Your comments about the working cycle of cats are understood. Particularly in Germany cats have been mandatory in motorsport since 1994 or earlier. For motorsport to survive it needs to project a “green image” - requiring cats to be fitted is part of that process.”

 

From the Technical Director MSA.

 

 

Apparently the vehicle "date of manufacture" will be confirmed by the scrutineers checking the VIN.

 

Does the cat requirement apply to Caterhams competing in class 6 (i.e. not necessarily "road legal")?

[Shaun_E]

A class 6 Caterham is still a "production based sports car" so a cat is still required.

 

Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing

[robmar]

how are they going to visual inspect for anything through the lambda sensor hole especially if it si located in one of your primaries

[SV Gary]

Pehaps they will be using one of these

[BYKer Will]

is the vin plate the only ID on a caterham chassis?

 

If so and not advocating this but what would stop someone hypothetically acquiring a new vin tag from ebay and stamping it with a 1999 chassis number? Obviously not for the road!

 

Obviously this is cheating but it does seem unfair that a 2000 car has to run to a different spec to 1999 car.

 

Also what is the logic with after 31/12/99? did some other emission rules for the road change at that date and this rule is aligning with that?

 

Will

 

 

[Mark Durrant]

Will

 

The date for requiring a CAT was set by the MSA and I do not know the reason why this was chosen. Representations were made when this change was being considered but the MSA chose to proceed.

 

To suggest that people should consider changing the VIN plates on their cars is not helpful and as the scruitineer can ask to see the V5 this would be foolish. Anyone found cheating in this way would at the very least be excluded from the event and could face further action.

 

This clubs speed championship is entry level motorsport and our competitors comply with both the MSA and our championship regs.

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[BYKer Will]

Mark

 

I did say I didn't advocate it plus I said it was obviously cheating but I thought it was reasonable question especially beacause no one seems to know what actually constitutes date of manufacture.

 

What happens with non road registered cars. Do they even have to have a vin tag?

[FlymoFraser]

Will

 

Doesn't the MSA log book cover non road registered vehicles? presumably you have to prove when getting that the correct age etc?

 

I know that your question was a hypothetical one but bear in mind that Mark is responsible to the MSA for our championship and if one of our competitors gets caught cheating a lot of pain will fall on Mark's head. Also, scrutineeting makes me nervous enough already, a lot actually gets through on trust/ benefit of the doubt and I don't really want to have the scrute believe that I belong to a club that advocates cheating before he starts.

 

Neil

[BYKer Will]

Sorry. I didn't want to put Mark in a difficult spot.

 

It just seems such a half baked idea that I can't help myself questioning it.

 

 

 

Will

[david nelson]

There are many 1/2 baked ideas in this world but the MSA have made the rule and we need to up hold this.

 

I d feel sorry for those sevens that were not designed fro a cat. I guess its X-flows and Vx that have the main problem.

 

 

David

[RichardO]

The date for requiring a CAT was set by the MSA and I do not know the reason why this was chosen.

 

It was chosen as being a date at which the vast majority of cars would have had a cat fitted as standard at manufacture.

 

It's actually several years later than the date when the UK introduced emissions tests to the MOT for production cars (1992?). Although the UK law does not explicitly require a cat, it's not exactly easy to meet the emissions requirements without one....

 

R

[Dannyboy]

David..

 

Very few Vx engined or X-Flow cars are post 99! None of the classic grads - ex caterham academy cars require Cat's for this year as all are pre 99!

 

The cars requiring Cat's are therefore generally cars that were sold/ designed to use a Cat.

 

Dannyboy

 

[andysteele]

i know MOST classic grad/VX academy cars are pre-2000 registered, such as mine (Oct 1999), but the 2000 academy was with VX engined cars so some are spring 2000 registered.

 

I know the end of line Beaulieu 1600 VX's were still being registered in 2001.

 

I expect MSA will accept that these engines are from 1994, its was just bolted into the car at a later date.

 

1999 VX1600 Classic - andysteele.net - picasa albums - driving in marigolds

[Offspring]

For my 2p:

 

The MSA appear to be using the manufactured date (confirmed by Chassis number), not the vehicle registered date.

 

I guess it is entirly possible that the Beaulieu chassis had been made in 99, and only sold/registered in 2001 - CC archives should be able to confirm this.

 

 

 

[Jason Plato]

the month and date of chassis manufacture is stamped on the chassis behind the drivers shoulder on the seat belt anchor boss .

 

here is C7 TOP

Taffia joint AO with Al

 

 

edit to say "chassis" manufacture

 

Edited by - Dave Jackson on 26 Jan 2009 11:55:32

[Matthew Willoughby]

I have got a letter from Caterham confirming that my year 2000 registered car was manufactured before the end of 1999. I will show this to the scrutineers if they ask for proof.

 

ASBO orange 1.6 VX

[neilg]

That's interesting Mathew, my Blackbird has a year 2000 VIN plate and i think a year 2000 chassis engraving on the seat belt anchor point. My Blackbird is carb fed and so no way can i use a cat. I might investigate your idea further.

Neil