Full Roll cage vs Roll bar

[Dyrill]

My car has a full roll cage. I am thinking (about 50:50 at the minute) about changing it for a track day/FIA type roll bar. My plan is to track day it many, many times in 09 😬 so I like the idea of the full cage but to be honest it is a bit of a pain for road driving. What are the options to be considered or is there a no brainer fitment OR should I stick with the full cage? - the car is a 96 S3 model. As I say I am 50:50 so any advice wold be much appreciated.

 

Supersport 1.8 VVC

[dannylt]

What is the problem with a full cage on the road? Apart from a tiny bar where an A-pillar would be, it's almost unnoticeable. My (mainly track) car has always had one, and I always feel a bit naked driving a Caterham without now!

 

I would stick with it. To be honest, I think a full cage is almost of more benefit on the road! I don't know of any deaths on a track day, and the one time I've come off a track at speed, the only thought that went through my mind was being glad about the cage!

[martin b]

I personally found the Roadsports cage you have fitted can be a little claustrophobic especially if your tall, you could try adjusting the seating to get you a bit lower or if your feeling extravagant the Superlight cage is much roomier, though you will have to ditch the screen and weather gear.

A halfway house would be to get the tall roadsports cage, there is one on ebay at the moment I think.

 

Good luck

 

Martin

 

 

Surrey AR/AO

[Willie.]

I'd definetly fit an FIA bar and sell your cage...to me. Oh, and I know where there'll be a real nice Caged Trackday rollbar up for sale soon.

 

Its all a matter of opinion I think. I like the idea of a cage because for mostly road use, and living in Ireland, I'm paranoid about hiding a cow side on. I also think they look great.

 

On track, unless you're short and put alot of padding on the cage, I'm not as keen on them. If you whack your head of it, you're going to do damage...although I'm sure you could repair the cage 😬

 

Lots of discussion & argument in the archives about this, but really its down to you. Most argued point is if your helmet is closed to the cage for racing, is it more of a disadvantage than advantage.

 

Willie

p.s. I'm serious about your cage.

[The Village Idiot]

Full cage everytime for me.

 

It makes the car so much stiffer, for me it is one of the best upgrades around (having owned both caged and roll barred cars).

 

I feel much safer in my current car with full cage and side bar and don't find it gets in the way at all.

 

Richard

 

Edited to say haveing looked at your photos some proper padding on the bars around your head is a must

 

Edited by - Richard @ Summit on 4 Jan 2009 01:04:14

[SLR No.77]

It really is your personal choice With padding in the correct places, a full cage is usually going to offer better protection on either road or track than an FIA bar alone - there will however sometimes be incidents where head/cage contact will result in an injury that would not have happened with an FIA bar, but on the whole a correctly padded cage should be safe. Unless you're going to add padding, remove the cage immediately!

 

My first car (same age as yours Dyrill) had an FIA bar. My second car ('99) was fitted with the same type of cage you have. Unfortunately for road use I found it less practical and somewhat claustrophobic, losing the "open to the sky" element of 7 driving that personally I find important. The cage also made the car INCREDIBLY STIFF, resulting in me believing it had been fitted with a very stiff race spring setup. I swapped the cage for an FIA bar and the car felt normal again!

 

I do mostly road driving with the occasional track day and as such I find the FIA bar a good balance. As I said, personal choice!

 

Stu.

[jchasey]

One of the race regulations is that with helmet on, there should be a 5cm gap between the top of the helmet and the roll-cage. This is to avoid a head-hitting-cage situation.

 

However with standard seating/Tillets, particularly if you are tall this is not achievable without a lowered floor, and even then some people have to move to a foam seat in order to sit them lower in the car to achieve the gap.

 

I vote on the full cage, albeit with the correct setup ^^

 

John

[Nick Chan]

Like Stu I had a car with the roadsports full cage on that was primarily used as a road car with occasional trackday use. I liked the stiffness it gave the car but hated the hassle clambering in and out, especially in the winter/autumn when you are wearing bulkier clothing. I left it on the HPC for 3 years and then removed it for an FIA bar.

 

It was the tall FIA cage and with the foam seats I had more than enough space above my head for the helmet clearance but I still found it claustrophobic for roaduse - plus if you aeroscreen, you lose the feeling of openness you get with an aero'd FIA bar car as you are effectively looking through a screen-shaped aperture with the cage and scuttle. I was still left with my view impaired by the cage hoop as its right in my eyeline and possibly if I had a lowered floor this would have sorted it.

 

Its very much a personal choice though and there seems to be a high tendancy for owners to be fitting them of late. Maybe its the safety factor and the thought of going through a hedge (with barbed wire) or doing more trackdays or sprinting where safety is quite rightly paramount but obviously only you can decide on this one.

 

HTH

 

Nick

 

-----

Back in a BEC!

[Mickrick]

Slight hijack, but on topic. Almost. Is there anything to look out for, with putting a car through SVA with a full cage?

[Dyrill]

Thanks for the views chaps- seems about 50:50 then like me! If I did go with the roll bar what is the difference between the FIA and Track day bar with regards to track day requirements and general road safety ( Willie- I could be interested depending on answers to this one ...) 😬

 

Supersport 1.8 VVC

[Dyrill]

Done the search through the archives now so no need to answer the last question( though thanks for the mail Willie).after taking on aboard everyones views I think I will stay with the full cage for the time being, get some padding for track days and see how I get on, I can always change it later if I decide it's not for me. Cheers.

 

Darren

 

Supersport 1.8 VVC

[DaveMorris]

Darren,

get the padding NOW for road use.

 

On a trackday, helmet to metal bar contact will leave the ears ringing.

On the road, head to metal bar contact could be more painful.

And make sure you have a good gap between head and cage.

 

Dave.

[Dyrill]

Will do Dave there is a good gap between skull and small brain as well so all helps 😬

 

Supersport 1.8 VVC

[Geoff Wilcx]

Have ran cars with both - overall I have to say that from now on I would only go Full Cage - stiffer car giving better handling - builds greater confidence and I also value my life - even on the road a roll bar gives you zero protection from hitting something head on....a full cage may just be enough to save you. I saw a piccie recently of a 7 that rolled off the road ( i think it swerved to avoid someone) it had only had a roll bar and the front screen was flattened to the bonnet so I wonder how much more protected that person would have been had they had a full cage.

 

www.geoffwilcoxphotography.co.uk

[Gridgway]

I don't know how you can be sure that your head will not hit the cage. It's all well and good for saying 5cm between helmet and cage. That doesn't mean a safe gap at all.

 

crash+head+cage=death, even if padded.

 

Graham

 

 

[jchasey]

Thats 5cm between helmet and cage PLUS the fact (in my case) that I'm wearing a six-point harness - if worn correctly you won't move any higher. However, for road use this is a bit more inconvenient! But a lot safer.

 

John

[Gridgway]

The problem is that you don't actually know how far you move in a crash. It's a surprisingly long way. It's just not very testable without er crashing.

 

My GT3 had the front section of the cage fitted which seemed a long way from my head. The Manual is very specific about not having the cage on the road and not driving with the cage unless you wear a helmet. Suffice to say, it's no longer fitted.

 

Graham

[neilg]

My present Blackbird has the tall full roadsport cage. My former car had the standard height full roadsport cage . The tall cage is so much less claustrophobic than the lower cage and i can fit under it with a helmet so much better. I wouldn't have a caterham i don't think without the full cage as i have an aeroscreen and what would happen if you wnt through say a hedge which had a barbed wire fence the other side doesn't bear thinking about. As i don't want to be garrotted i prefer the security of the full cage. Most of the time i wear a helmet so i'm not that fussed about hitting my head on the cage( which is padded).

It is a palava to get in and out though although i'm used to it now.

Ta Neil

[Jason Plato]

I would say there is a big difference between having a car with a roadsport cage and a SLR cage.

 

The roadsport allows the use of weather gear - even if you cant get out of the car..... The SLR cage allows the use of the windscreen but not the doors - or at least you cant open open them.

 

The roadsport cage is waaaay to close to your head for my liking even with a lowered floor and I'm surprised Caterham have got away with that for so long.

 

The SLR cage is a different design all together and I wouldnt drive without one now.

 

The main considerations I have are :

a car coming up your bonnet - as happened to a local member on a B road where a 4x4 literally drove up the bonnet...

 

exiting the road with an aeroscreen and loosing your head on a fence or barbwire or even the wire barriers down the middle of many dual carriageways.

 

side impact / or 30 degree impact with another car

 

or of course a roll over, although these are very rare.

 

each to their own

 

 

 

here is C7 TOP

Taffia joint AO with Al

 

[captain chaos]

Slightly O/T...could anyone comment or provide stated facts from Arch/Caterham about the improved rigidity of a car with...

 

an FIA roll bar PLUS Petty bar

 

from FIA bar to SLR cage...

 

When Arch did my chassis refurb I had the forward cage mounts added. However, I intended to aeroscreen this year and don't really want to add a full cage at the moment. For improved rigidity on track, I was going to add a petty bar arrangement (this will need to be a one off because my tilletts now interfere with the standard alignment).

 

Thanks and apologies for the hijack!

[Jason Plato]

I doubt the info has been done Captain , but I can verify that my chassis felt a lot stiffer - as if you had wound the Nitrons up 2 clicks, after the SLR cage had been fitted in place of the fia (with petty).

 

It stands to reason if you are cross bracing the big hole in the middle 😬

 

here is C7 TOP

Taffia joint AO with Al

 

[Mickrick]

Can anyone tell me if the forward mounts are usualy there, or do you have to specify this option when you order the chassis?

 

I was intending to fit a roadsport cage. But I can't check mine, as the chassis is not at home. It's a 2007 SV Arch.

 

Also, can anyone see any problem with putting a car through SVA with a roadsport cage? Apart from covering caps on the nuts and bolt heads of course.

 

Cheers,

Mick.

[Jason Plato]

2007 should be fine. I think the change over on the lower front mounts under the scuttle was around '04

 

The other option is to just take out 3 or 4 rivets and check behind the inner skin.

 

here is C7 TOP

Taffia joint AO with Al

 

[Roger Ford]

No problem with cages and SVA. All the Academy cars go through with the cages fitted.

[Mickrick]

Dave, Roger, Thanks.

 

I'll check it Dave, but like I said, it's not here, but I'll be with it next month. Should be easy, as the top of the inner panel isn't riveted yet, as I still haven't put the sill protectors on.