Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I have decided to bite the bullet and replace the loom on my 13 year old VX, taking the opportunity to add a Stack type dash display when the loom is changed. I know that Caterham sell Rover & CSR looms suitable for Stack equipped cars - can I modify one of these for my VX? or could a new Vx loom be manufactured (I guess drawings must still available) using the old loom as a template. Being completely ignorant regarding all things electrical I would appreciate any advice on the above from any source, but particularly from my friends in the Vx community who have done similar work in recent years. Where & how should I start? L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Do you get a wiring diagram with the Stack gauge? If so then get a sub loom made up for the Stack (or make it yourself) and patch it into the VX loom. I am guessing that the Stack will require inputs from the Water Temp, oil pressure, oil temp, revs and speed. These should be available from the VX loom so it is a case of reading the wiring diagram and connecting as appropriate. Just remember to check all connections in a logical manner before powering up, and get ready to turn the power off if you smell anything getting warm. A good continuity tester will help a lot. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul I haven't done this particular job but have tidied up my Vx loom over the years and modified another engine bay loom for a different engine fit. I would have thought that unless you've had a fire or other extensive damage it would be a great deal easier to modify the existing loom than install a new one. Why are you considering replacing yours? To do either will necessitate removing the scuttle, search for recent posts on how to do this - its dead easy by the way and takes less than half an hour- as this means you can easily get at all the wiring behind the dash to change connectors and generally rationalise and rewire as necessary. It also avoids having to hang upside down in the drivers seat. One point you might want to consider is, do you have a Vecta immobiliser and need to keep it for insurance reasons? These were a factory fit option around the time your car was built, the same as mine. This is deeply wired into the existing loom and would not be easy to reinstall into a new one, although not impossible. Re wiring it yourself might invalidate the insurance, if you're bothered. A lot of people on here would say that you should get rid of it anyway although I've still got mine and never had a problem with it. You're probably looking at a couple of day's work at most for a competent vehicle electrician to do the wiring mods, apart from actually fitting the Stack dash into a new or modified dash panel. I would reckon that fitting a complete new loom would take at least twice that as you'll end up having to change all the bullet connectors on the lamp units and sorting these and the other accessories out once they've been disturbed. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Remember that the Stack uses different sensors to the stock items. As such, you can't really use the Stack with the stock sensors (unless you can manually calibrate the dash, which I don't think you can with a Stack) and you can't swap sensors to Stack items as the ECU won't get proper readings. Sorry if you realise this, it's not clear to me from your post. I think you either need to add the Stack sensors in addition to the existing sensors, and have a sub-loom for the Stack alone (relatively simple) or use a configurable dash (e.g. RaceTechnology Dash2) with the existing sensors. Actually, not sure if the Dash2 works as a standalone (other configurable dashes do though), so with the Dash2 you may need a datalogger to feed it . .. not sure 😳 and about to go into a meeting so can't check for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Don't spose this is any good, from Caterham parts clearance here ----- Caterham BEC here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Hi Paul, As you know, I did a complete rebuild of my car earlier this year which included making my own loom... I have to say that it's not that difficult BUT..you must have the time to do it. It took me longer than I thought (a month of evenings and weekends..appreciating that I'd never done any electrical work before )...and to do a really good job the more you have off the car the easier it will be. I even changed all connectors ie to headlamps, rear light blocks etc..) so it was 100% new. The stack loom will take care of some of the engine side, but that too will need modifying as some of the sensor lines are way too long and it took me a couple of days just to cut and make good the stack loom to fit a seven. I undertook the work because I had a completely bare shell to work with. It was nice and clean to work on and I wanted to know what was going on so I could fix it in the future! Also, a bloke in Chester that DaveK recommended quoted me £900 to make a new one! that said, it still cost me a good few quid to buy the cable and connectors. If you want to chat about it..call me..I'm suer you have the number...I'll mail it anyway Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 PS..I should mention that i had 2 consultative meetings with Julian who inspected (and corrected!) my wiring diagrams. Everything worked *smokin*apart from the hazards which I sussed within 2o mins due to a wiring error. It should also be added that I used the dash switches which are now on the new R500 (I had them last October!) and so issues such as the wiper motor signals etc all needed some real thinking time for someone like me who in the past only really dared disconnect the battery or change a fuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Thank you all for your replies. Paul, no damage, I am just concerned about all the bodges and loose ends that are under the dash plus corrosion, poor crimps etc at terminals. I do intend to lose the immobiliser during the job. Adam, I am still getting to grips with what actually comes with the Stack & how it connects to the main loom. Any further info appreciated. Manxseven, many many thanks I just have phoned Tony & reserved one of these! This could be the best way for me to start. Gary, there is no way I could do this myself but I will phone later for advice & a chat. L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, You should be able to use the later K-series main loom. You will probably need to make up your own engine loom though, but it's the easier part. All the connectors for the swithces and gauges ... deep sigh. Been there done that. /regin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, send me an an email on gary.gt3@googlemail.com and by return I'll send some pics ahead of our chat... Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Regin, I have an engine loom from Swindon, the main loom connects to it under the dash. Regarding the Rover loom I thought that the K series starter motor was on the nearside unlike the Vx?? I think the Stack replaces all the gauges with just ignition, start button, lamps & horn left to wire? L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, RJ will be alluding to the 'dash' side of the loom, rather than the engine side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, Not much left to do then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Gary I know so little about this I have no idea whether or not you are joking But as you know my car has no heater, no screen, no wipers or washers etc. etc. L7 FUN Edited by - Paul Gibb on 9 Dec 2008 13:00:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Mav L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Hi Paul You can divide the loom up into sections. Personally, if the lighting part is all ok, I'd leave that alone. The engine's subloom is mainly dependant on what ECU you use. If it's plug compatable with the CSR loom, it may be usable but other things may be different - eg 3 pin or 4 pin on the coil pack. ECR did make his own engine/ECU sub-loom from scratch so it may be worth talking to him. Personally, I'd get a standard loom from your ECU maker then start modifying it (mainly by cutting off plugs and resoldering them on at the right lengths) I took my scuttle off and simplified my loom by step by step removing each bit that wasn't needed or the bits that I'd rendered redundant by fitting other bits. I also tidied up all the bodges. I also removed the original carb loom that was still in there. In the past, I've fitted a DTA sub loom and now a weber alpha one. You dont need to replace the whole loom to get things much simpler and tidier. The stack loom is another separate sub-loom that can be grafted in quite easily. When you've done it all, get some loom tape (non adhesive) to tidy it all up - looks very tidy when it's all wrapped up in this stuff. It's a bit like sudoko, the closer you get to getting it right, the more obsessed you get by it! Good luck!! ----- VDU 7X Pics More VDU 7X Pics Edited by - Alex Wong on 9 Dec 2008 13:13:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, I was closer I'd come and give you a hand...I mean...you did look at my knee once Alex is right...if you divide it up into bits and approach it that way that seems a good idea. There's no need for you to touch your ECU loom I take it...you just want to get rid of the c**p and tidy stuff up....the stack will replace a load of guages...you have no wipers, heated screen etc (I wired this all up so I could still use my screen)... When are you attempting to do this? If you can wait till after Xmas what about if I tie up a trip south on business and then I come and spend an afternoon in your garage with you drawing up a plan of attack? I'd love to help but I'm pretty well committed into mid jan.. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul I fitted a Stack system last year. It should come with its own loom. It was very easy to fit. it has a large plug at the back of the unit. you just plug the correct wire into the correct sender and add a live and earth wire. You may find your current sender thread to be the wrong size so you will need a conversion piece. this should be avalable from DT, GPR, trident or think. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Alex, I suspect that the majority of the wiring under the scuttle will become redundant once the change is made. Currently thinking about stripping out the lamp wiring from my existing loom to make a separate lighting loom and then adding the Vx race loom found by Manxseven. This may be daft but at least I would know that all the important wiring and terminals were new. Gary, very kind offer but probably not necessary - I will phone later. David, that's encouraging thank you & just as I was beginning to lose my enthusiasm for the project. L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul I've been contemplating the same thing for my car as it's having a bit of a tidy up this Winter and have been in touch with Darren/ Tony to consider the best options. I have an SBD engine loom and of course the std stack loom covers all it's own sensors so it just needs a tacho signal and power/ earth, this really leaves the more basic car functions, lights, fuel pump, horn, fan, Alt signal, Starter button. I think I'm going to plump for the basic Rover loom and just splice into the connections I need, leaving the unused items in place. btw the VX race loom does look like it is just an Engine loom not a Car loom 🤔 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Thanks Mark, I'll check with Tony tomorrow L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 My 7 started out as a standard carb'ed car with screen,wipers,heater etc. The main bits of the loom eg lights etc are still in use. I have changed to injection (dta ecu) and a stack dash. So the ecu has its own loom,the stack has its own loom and the car has the standard loom with a few bits added ie fuel pump wires and there are a few unused bits. Its a bit of a mess but not that bad. I was thinking of making my own loom to incorparate all the additions and leave out the rest which would sort it out nicely as there is nothing which is close enough to be neat What ecu does yours use? Have you had a look at a k series r500 loom? Just thinking if you use an mbe,stack etc its quite a neat way of doing it. The engine side would not be that different and you could change connectors for crank sensor,injectors etc quite easily and also add on any extras. Good luck 😬 And dont forget to take some photos to give us all some ideas James Su77on Se7ens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, My main loom started life as non Stack, yet the car now has a Stack dash. It took me a good while to modify it, but everything can be done. However if you want to do it fairly hassle-free it might be an idea to get a main loom from CC - this - and then either get an old Rover engine loom to strip and rebuild. I don't know your looming skills (pun intended), but if you panic I can pop over a weekend to help sorting you. /regin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Gibb Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 James & Regin, my MBE ECU is part of the engine loom supplied by Swindon, connecting to the main car loom via a plug through the bulkhead. I have briefly looked at the Rover (Stack enabled) looms but these will all have redundant circuits and AFAIK the rover starter & oil pump are on the nearsisde unlike the Vx so mods will be required. Much easier to connect to the Stack though. Regin many thanks for the kind offer, I'll let you know how I get on! L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Paul, It's not much of the Rover main loom that'll be redundant as it deas not hold the engine loom itself - this is connected via the grey connector in the engine compartment. The Swindon loom could in fact be connected via that connector. The wires for the starter motor and alternator are part of the engine loom, not the main, hence the different fitting of these would not cause trouble. The oil pump is mechanicly driven I have a spare main loom - not for Stack - that I can send over for you to have a look at. /regin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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