Mark Durrant Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 All I think the regs have worked well this season and I do not propose we make many changes, however, I have the following on the agenda and if you want to add anything please post here but I would ask you make it constructive . Any changes will be discussed and agreed by those present at the forum on Sunday 30 November. Topics for discussion: Points scoring for next season We have now used the 100% system for the past two seasons and whilst it has worked well we ended up with three competitors sharing the overall championship this year. I would therefore like to consider a change to minimise the possibility of this being repeated. One possible solution is to use class records at venue where we have competed for a number of seasons and where a new record is set additional points up to a maximum of 5% could be added. Class records would only be used to determine the overall champion in the event that two or more competitors having 8 class wins. This is just one idea and I am happy for us to consider others. Catalytic Converters Next season a catalytic converter will be required to be fitted on all cars manufactured on or after 1 January 2000. The following changes need to be considered following the MSA regulation changes announced in the recent edition of Motorsports Now. FIA Bars All cars will be required to have the petty strut fitted Roll Cages I am currently seeking clarification from the MSA regarding the classes that our cars fit into within their regulations. If they determine that cars that currently fit into our classes 3-6 fall within ‘Modified Specialist Production Cars' as they use list 1b tyres these will require the fitment of a roll cage as from 2010. I hope to have this clarification by the time of the awards lunch and we will then consider on how to take this forward. Overalls Clarification on the requirements regarding Proban suits. Fireproof Gloves Recommended for 2009 and mandatory from 2010. Timing Strut Increase in dimensions from 2009 Reverse Gear Requirement Will be required by the MSA and will include cars in class 6 4 Point Harnesses These are required for ‘Modified Specialist Production Cars' (classes 3-6). Fuel System Cut off This is required for new Modified Specialist Production Cars from 1 Jan 09. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Mark, Sorry to hijack your thread, but is the reverse requirement for class 6, from 1 Jan 09? Simon Thanks Mark for your reply Simon Caterham BEC here Edited by - Manxseven on 20 Nov 2008 10:14:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Mark - confortable with all the topics however if this thread is also to start some debate/ questions / clarification then... roll cages in class 3 -6 - If the MSA does bring this in, should we consider a change in class structure to allow as many who don't want to fit a roll cage to continue in our championship. Not sure at this time how we would do that but worth a discussion as somoeone who fitted a cage some time ago it doesn't directly effect me, however I wouldn't want to loose too much competition, also this requirment is havign a lots of other disussion on other forums... also can you explain the fuel system cut-off, is this the same as a battery master cut off, or something else glad I fitted the reverser and cat now :) rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Simon I will check when I get home and post here. Rob I am sure there will be a lot of concern over the the change in the MSA regs to make the fitting of a roll cage mandatory for classes 3-6 from 2010. Once we have clarification from the MSA on whether this applies to our class structure we will have two options: 1. Lobby the MSA to change the reg to make the fitting off a cage recommended and not mandatory. I will obvoiusly look to involve other clubs 2. Examine our class structure to see if we can change this so that the roll cage requirement does not apply I will post later regarding a fuel cut off switch as I do not have Motorsport Now to hand. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Good question re the fuel cut off; Does it need to be a collision triggered type or will a master switch be enough ? I have both, but I suspect a few may not have. I will keep away from the cage issue for fear of getting a bit grumpy. However, if it does come in then we will probably need to restructure the classes from 2010 as 1b entries will likely fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bowler Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Any idea if I will need to renew my 4 point harness? Its dated 2008, but in good condition. Might need to order in a few more yellow trowels if alot of people shift to list 1A tyres to avoid having to fit a cage. AB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Laddie Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Do Petty struts need to be fitted when a cage is fitted, as the phrase "all cars" is used? Enjoy, Mike (aka VII SVN) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 think that might be a slight wording issue, one hopes not sure you can even put the petty strut in with a cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Alan, belts do not need to be "in date" just in good condition. Mine are dated 2005 and have been passed several times by scutineers this year and they've been given a thorough examination each time. Mike, the petty strut item is under the heading FIA bars so I'm sure it won't affect people with cages. ASBO orange 1.6 VX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 My understanding on the fuel cut off issue is that it is intended to capture the older historic cars. Ours all comply as we have ignition switches/cut offs. I seem to recall a storey in the previous quarters magazine which explained this. I may be wrong. Management Team Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Simon A reverse gear is mandatory from 2010. Rob Fuel cut off - we should be OK as the explanatory note refers to historic cars equipped with magneto ignition systems....so it might apply to a Xflow 😬 (I am sure Michael Calvert can confirm ) Alan B Provided the 4-point harness is in good condition it does not need to be in date. Mike The petty strut is part of an FIA bar and does not apply to a cage. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl0498 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Guys, Apologies the fuel system cut off is actually a fuel system inspection requirement to allow fuel testing - needed for all NEW Modified Specialist Production Cars - Classes 3-6. This was in the summer Motorsports Now. Hope this helps, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Brian - what do you mean by NEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Definition new (RECENTLY CREATED) Show phonetics adjective recently created or having started to exist recently: a new car She's very creative and always coming up with new ideas. What have they decided to call their new baby? What's new in the fashion world? We have to invest in new technology if we are to remain competitive. See also brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl0498 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hi Rob, In China at present and no Motorsports Now with me (and not on MSA website) but I spotted this one in the summer mag. I am sure all it said was new as in new cars. Can you fish out the mag and take a look? Thanks, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Nigel - thanks Brian - sorry its gone to be recycled after I read it, usually everything is 'manufactured' or built before 1st Jan of XYZ year, so was just looking for clarification as to when New actaully started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Taken from Motorsport Now - Autumn 2008 57. All vehicles must be equipped with an effective method of stopping the fuel supply, operable by the driver when normally seated and with seat belt secured. This is to be combined with or located adjacent to the internal ignition cut-off switch. 60. All vehicles must be equipped with an ignition cut-off switch having positive ON-OFF positions clearly marked. The ignition cut-off and fuel pumps isolation system(s) must be operable by the driver when normally seated with seat belts secured. Reason: With certain vehicles, mainly historic cars equipped with magneto ignition systems, one switch cannot be used to both isolate the ignition and the fual pumps making it impossible to comply with the reguation as now written. It applies equally to cars competing in speed or race events, hence the reason for aligning the regulations for each discipline to mirror each other. So it would appear that it applies to all cars not just new and as our existing cut-off/ignition switches cut power to the fuel pump we already comply. Mark D Comp Sec Edited by - Mark Durrant on 20 Nov 2008 11:57:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Mcalvert Posted November 20, 2008 Leadership Team Share Posted November 20, 2008 Can I make the leap of faith in that case that they would accept that a mechanical fuel pump (yes, some of of XFLOW luddites still run these) - is driven from the engine and is therefore directly controlled from the ignition? Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Michael As the fuel pump cannot run with the ignition switched off, as the engine is not turning over and therefore the fuel pump is not operating IMHO it meets the regulation. Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hmm OK now I'm confused, I have a battery master switch that turns everything off on my car. Does that meet this requirement? If not then I also have a seperate ignition switch that turns off the ECU and the fuel pump is controlled by the ECU so it can't run without it being on, how about that? Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Rob Can you reach the master switch from your seat with the seat belts secured 🤔 Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hmm might be a stretch, I'll have to give it a go. I can certainly reach the ignition switch on the dash with the belts done up. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl0498 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Guys, We already have to comply with the fuel cut off/ignition cut off rules - the revision is purely to do with the historic cars where the current reg is unworkable. Please don't confuse the fuel cut-off issue above with the future requirement to be able to safely tap the fuel supply to do fuel testing at scrutineering/parc ferme etc. This is the requirement I am talking about and it was in the Summer Motorsports Now from 1 Jan 09 for new cars deemed to be in Modified Specialist Production Cars and other categories. Hope this helps, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted November 21, 2008 Support Team Share Posted November 21, 2008 I have read the rollover protection section several times now and as I see it there is no change to the requirements. However we may not have been complying to date! The change is to the classes. What is currently "modified production cars" has been split into "modified series production cars" and "modified specialist production cars". In 2008 (and I presume before that) a Caterham on List 1B tyres would have fallen into the "modified production cars" class. From 2009 it will be in the "modified specialist production cars" class. The requirements for rollover protection are the same and further they do not change in 2010. The issue then is to understand the rollover protection requirements in section C© of the blue book - a task that is not easy. My understanding is that it is mandatory for "modified production cars" to comply with points 31-35 OR 36 of section C©. It is also my understanding that an FIA bar with petty strut complies as it is a certified ROPS. So in summary I believe that Caterhams on list 1B tyres should have an FIA bar with petty strut fitted to comply but a full cage is not required and will not be required in 2010 either. For me personally this is an issue but I will find a way to resolve it. I guess we can lobby the MSA to allow list 1B for "Road going series production cars" and "road going specialist production cars". I suspect that will simply draw their attention to the fact we may not currently be complying with the rules. We could introduce a class 4a and class 5a which run on list 1A tyres but I can't see there being much support for them. I guess we will just have to fit petty struts (or cages) for classes 3, 4, 5 and 6. Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Edited by - Shaun_E on 21 Nov 2008 10:21:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S. Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree we need something to prevent a multiple tie for overal champion and think the idea of extra points for class records is good. This would reward someone who has got the max points in a strong class over someone in a weaker one.......I can't think of a better way No prob with the petty strut as I've been meaning to get around to fitting mine all last season!.....not good for the likes of Shaun & Gill who drive to events but I guess they dont take that long to remove Class 4 Zetec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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