Miff Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Having a slight problem getting through the SVA, took car to Gillingham last week, was a bit tricky to drive there, when got there found out my tacho was reading double (i.e. i was keeping it under 4000rpm on the dial which was actually 2000rpm - apparently i had an EU2 tacho for my EU3 loom (or was it the other way round?)), anyway, fixed now. But. Failed on emissions last week cos lambda too high but ok on everything else. Thought i had cracked it when on re-inspecting everything the following day found a plug in the engine loom not connected to anythig, turned out it was sposed to be on the throttle to let the ECU know what was going on, improved engine running no end! Don't know whether Caterham had never connected it or I had knocked it off at some point during the build but it seems pretty "un-knock-offable" to me. Got the emissions checked by friendly local mobile engine tuner, Lambda fine now. Went off to Gillingham this morning thinking everything would be OK - failed on too much %CO on idle!! and the %CO at fast idle was near the limit too. Well p.o. Guy at test station said "always have trouble with the VHPD emissions", funny that cos when i asked Caterham about the VHPD engine and getting through the SVA emissions when i was buying it they said "no problem, all sail through"! Anyway, how do i fix it (caterham now have it for the post-build check and a look over)? ? get cat hotter than kylie just before next test ? ? get it tuned up ? cheers (sorry for long posting but i feel the need to rant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Caterham are talking poo poo again. Beagles VHPD had all manner of problems getting through SVA. Ended up changing the inlet manifold from the straight direct to head to an old dogleg type. I dont see why that should change anything but it worked. The cat temperature will have an effect but surely a new cat on a warmed up engine should be working. Which sort of ecu do you have? Can you check that its getting all the right inputs? Air and coolant temp sensors functioning correctly (i.e. its not running rich thinking its stone cold). Throttle pot reading zero load? Lambda sensor functioning? Where do you have the lambda sensor fitted? Is it downstream of the collector? If its stuck in exh runner 4 like mine then it wont get the lamdba correction right, only for cyl 4. The others will run at different mixtures. Is the sleeve joint leaking near the collector? Small leaks here can draw air actually upstream a long distance at certain loads which confuse the sensor too. Check fuel pressure also is poss. If its out due to a duff pressure reg then the lambda correction may be pegged on the limit and not controling. Hopefully Beagle will respond with his experiences. Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 "suggest" that Caterham do it for you as there are no user adjustable parts and therefore you cannot do it and thus your car is not fit for purpose? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B11MOY Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Mif You have mail Billy Rudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwb Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Bob, Is there a diagnostic socket anywhere (or interrogation point for the ECM)? The recorded DTCs will identify the fault - only needs a scan tool. Steve B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Steve Not sure if VHPDs have diagnostics? Depends how clever the OBD is. On a MEMS 1.9 unit I wouldn't hold my breath. Also I'd much rather see what the ECU is seeing and understand the problem than just be told that somethings not working (thats if it recognises that whatever isn't working). BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkey Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Give it back to Caterham and tell them to sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 apparently i had an EU2 tacho for my EU3 loom (or was it the other way round?)) I believe all VHPDs are still EU2 engines (prepared to be wrong), in which case Caterham supplied you with an EU3 tacho. This must be particularly irritating as I know of 2 people who have EU3 engines and were supplied with EU2 tachos. Personally I prefer hot salsa tacos. teeth.gif If its stuck in exh runner 4 like mine then it wont get the lamdba correction right, only for cyl 4. Bob, is this right? I thought the injection was batched? Even if it isn't would they really alter the map for just cyl-4? Doesn't sound likely. It's more likely that the lambda would provide overall map changes. I don't know how the MEMS works (often it doesn't) but on my replacement M3DK the injection is batched, and the loom hasn't changed to accommodate this. Also, lambda correction is applied everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Nigel, I think the comment about cylinder 4 was that the *sampling* was only from cylinder 4, obviously the corections will be applied across the board, but if there is an imbalance between the cylinders WRT to ideal AF ratio then the corrections wont be ideal for every cylinder and may in fact push the overall emmissions outside the acceptable band. Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 21 Jun 2002 10:41:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I think they all EU2 engines in SLR and R500. The new R300 one is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 Ahah, I see. Problem is when you start to learn a bit, you think you know it all. Cheers. wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted June 21, 2002 Author Share Posted June 21, 2002 Hmmm, i feel the consensus of opinion is to let caterham sort it. Has anyone else had caterham 'sort out' their SVA failures? And if so what happens if i get them to take it to the SVA and it still fails? Is it then their problem to get it passed? (I expect not!) Don't feel too confident about checking all the things above myself, arses and elbows spring to mind once people start talking in more complex language than "it's got four big holes, right, that's where big explosions push things up and down round a rotating rod which turns the wheels, see?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted June 21, 2002 Author Share Posted June 21, 2002 Billy, have not yet received any mail and i can send mail to myself from the site ok, was it anythign vital? (like a spellign bok?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 I got Caterham to d my SVA under slightly different circs. I paid them and it failed several times, but I only paid the fixed fee. On the grounds that it is not fixable by you, I don't know what else you could do. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkey Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Miff, don't check any of it yourself. Caterham supplied you a car that they guarantee to pass the SVA. If it doesn't, it is not fit for purpose and it is up to them to sort it out. Drop the car at Dartford and collect it again when they have taken it through an SVA successfully. My R500 failed an emissions recently. Caterham fixed the issue (wrong lambda sensor, balance of throttle bodies, ECU map) and took it to the SVA. Although I was hacked off that it failed, I don't have any complaints about their customer service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Easy answer, get a Q plate car with a bloody big pair of side draught carbs , easy to fix yourself and all officialdom take one look and tell you to go away (VERY UN POLITELY) Sorry I couldn't help REAL SEVENS HAVE IRON B'LOCKS CHRIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Caterham found out what the problem is/was. Duff engine wiring loom. They said something about duff sensors or some other techno-thing. Anyway the loom is back at the manufacturers for a look at. How should i play this? 1. Caterham supplied me a car that was never going to pass it's SVA, failed once partially due to my fault, but then failed again, wholly down to Caterham, at considerable cost to me (petrol leicester-caterham-leicester, one and a half days off work, re-test fee, buying dinner for parents). 2. They will charge me £150 to take it themselves now. Do i request that this is there problem and they should therefore sort it? Suspect may be told to bugger off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkey Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Send me an email offline. Probably best to discuss it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Aha! Ze plot thickens! When i initally drove my car i had a problem driving it at under 4000 rpm due to wrong tacho for wiring loom. Got a 'phone call from caterham today after they told me it was the engine loom asking me exactly what the original tacho problem was. I asked earlier whether the whole thing may be the wrong vehicle loom and was told absolutely not. Are the vehicle looms particular to each engine type? (i.e. does my VHPD engine require a particular loom or are they universal?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 I would ask them to do it for you (don't know the answer to the loom question). Their time costs them very little and I would say it's the least they could do! Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Have a look at your wiring harness - if you have a thick brown wire (+ve) going from your alternator all the way around your engine under the front pulleys and up past the coil and (zzzzz) around the back and to the battery then you have the EU2 loom which ought to be right - certainly my new VHPD has this. Does you car idle? Mine only sort of idles (although it has only been running for 10 minutes total !) and frankly I can tell you now it will fail any sort of test that involves noise or emissions unless I slide a bunch of notes into Mr SVA's pocket in a discreet fashion!!!!! Joking aside, I found a loose wire in my new loom at the big econoseal plug that connects the car loom to the engine one. On inspection the loom is very rudimentary and it won't surprise me to find that mine is farmered too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted July 4, 2002 Author Share Posted July 4, 2002 Can't look at the loom at the mo, i am in leicester and the car is in dartford! My engine, as you say, only 'sort of idled' but i am not sure whether this is a characteristic of the VHPD engine or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangers quotNquot Mas1697456953 Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 VHPD's idle with no problem! Caterham helped me with the initial problems I had. (So they shoul after spending that sort of cash!!!!) Best thing I have fitted to mine is the M3D. It transforms the engine! best of luck! Andy Marks andy@metrol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Me too. thumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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